Rev Bob Carter wrote: > Has anyone tried out the Kayak sailing rig by Primex/Deluge. Just got a post > card advertizement. It is strickly a down wind sail but may help me make > longer trips in the future. Larry Koenig responded: >>I have tried their sail rig and was disappointed with it. Although they suggest that it is possible to do some limited off wind sailing I couldn't make it happen. Down wind it moved the boat okay but became dangerous for me whenever the water got a little rough. Since the paddle is occupied holding up the sail it is not available for bracing. It's not there for steering either so you've got to have a rudder. << I tried the Primex sail to and it worked fine for me in moderate winds and up to about 45 degrees off the wind (but I thought it kind of underpowered--but might have changed my mind in stronger winds) I also disliked having to hold it up but it is not essential that you use the paddle to do that. I found it was easy to drop if you didn't fasten it to the paddle. It most certainly does not need a rudder to steer with (or even the paddle). Since it can pivot at the deck mount like a sailboard it can also be steered just by leaning the rig to one side or the other. Lean rig left turn right. >>And woe is the paddler who tips over while using their outfit. A seriously encumbered paddle cannot a good roll make.<< A customer of mine who had built a larger homemade one previously explained the that he didn't need a rudder to turn (so I didn't have to discover this for myself) and I don't recall getting any directions with the sail either. This customer also said he had no trouble with capsizes because if he did capsize all he had to do was move the sail rig out to one side and push down on it to roll right back upright. >>In my limited experience, a kite is a better option for free downwind ergs. Larry Koenig<< I have had far more experience with parafoil kites (7.5 & 15 sq.ft.) than with sails but my kite experiences ranged from struggles to get it flying, backpaddling to keep it flying and disappointments with the wind once launched all the way to rising apprehension about the tigers tail I had grabbed hold of one 25 to 30 knot day as I realized how difficult it might be to let go as I was planing toward the horizon in my 20.5" wide kayak that was yawing back and forth wildly following the kite doing the same thing. Its real had to keep your paddle tucked under your arm while trying to wind in the kite and not capsize in a situation like this. One needs two more hands, next time the wind really blows maybe I'll try it from a double kayak. Sails seem a lot more practical and safer with a double as well (but part of that may be that a double is not as much fun to paddle either). I've spent too much time paddling backwards trying to keep the kite in the air and then chasing after my buddies after struggling with the kite for far too long. About the only advantage I can see is a kite is light and doesn't take up much space. BTW you don't need a rudder to use a kite either just a rotating line to the bow so you can "fasten" it further forward on the kayak (or a paddler in the bow cockpit holding the line). I could easily go 45 degrees to the wind with a kite by moving the pulling point about half way from the bow back to me (when I could actually fly it at all). Of the sails I've used liked a spinnaker best as it was so simple to use, powerful, didn't require too much bulky equipment like leeboard or outriggers, was easy to set up and take down, and could be configured in different ways. Who needs to sail upwind anyway when you have a paddle that can get you there easier and faster. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze wrote: > Of the sails I've used liked a spinnaker best as it was so simple to use, > powerful, didn't require too much bulky equipment like leeboard or > outriggers, was easy to set up and take down, and could be configured in > different ways. Who needs to sail upwind anyway when you have a paddle that > can get you there easier and faster. These are really issues for Mark B. to address as the undoubted authority but I'll add a bit. Spinnakers have distinct drawbacks over standard sails. They tend to load and unload suddenly when the wind changes direction and apply their force high on the mast. One design that shall remain nameless is down right diabolical in applying sudden destabilizing loads in slight wind shifts. But stability aside, spinnakers don't work very well for practical sailing. Three years ago we tested two spinnaker rigs on Folbots and the standard Klepper main in the Charlottes over a 5 day period. In all sorts of wind conditions, backing, changes around headlands and the like the main was a better (though smaller in size than either of the spinnakers). It could be deployed earlier and left up longer, would depower simply by releasing the sheet (the spinnakers would sometimes blow into the water [!!!] dragging the mast down with them unless furiously lowered and carefully stowed) and did not flap or flail about. Also the standard Klepper mast was smaller and lighter. While the venerable Klepper AII can be sailed with the standard main without any lee boards (presuming a normal load) to about 45 degrees off the wind, Matt's experiences in doing so with a spinnaker are exceptional. We were unable to get either spinnaker rig to provide practical power more than 30 degrees off. For places like the Bahamas where the trades blow day after day from the NE to NW the standard sail is fine, the spinnaker near useless. That said, Mark Balogh's creation, the Twins (copied by Folbot) will work passably when folded behind the mast for reaching. We used one of Mark's larger Twins in the southern Bahamas last year (and wished every moment we had our Batwing) but it was acceptable. While there is fervor and amusement in not sailing with a rudder this is hardly the way to maximize performance or enjoyment. Those with deep commitments to avoiding rudders for spiritual or athletic reasons should by no means be tempted to do so. But if you want to sail a kayak in comfort and a range of conditions the right rudder is a must. As for the right sail, one must actually try a Batwing to believe the way it handles. The oft cited features of "efficiency" miss the other point: incredible predictability. Loads are applied so smoothly to the craft even in gusty and variable conditions that the Bat is much easier to predict and control. The akas and amas are nice but users are often amazed how infrequently these are needed for all but upwind sailing. Rich -- Richard G. Mitchell, Jr. Oregon State University Department of Sociology Corvallis, OR 97331 (541) 752-1323 phone/fax mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
After twenty - five years of competitive sailing I was kind of happy not to worry about a sail but people seem to enjoy it so... I whipped up a spinnaker rig for a canoeist who did not want to portage a mast. When he wanted to sail he cut down a sapling and fastened the halyard block to the top. He then raised his sail when he needed it and threw the sapling in the bush at the next portage. Like all simple things some people could not resist carbon fiber masts etc. Most liked the simplicity of the spinnaker over other rigs and learned to live with off wind sailing. For more extended cruising in kayaks and canoes my customer felt it would not hurt to be able to sail closer to the wind since he traveled on lakes and through lots of islands where the wind changes direction often an rapidly making putting up and taking down the sail a bit of a pain. Being cheap we decided not to buy a new sail and rig. We installed a"clew" in the middle of the spinnaker with a tack line to the mast. Downwind he freed the tack line to use the sail as a spinnaker. Reaching he pulled in the tack line and folded the sail in on itself like a crude Ljungstrom rig. He claimed he could sail a bit into the wind even without lee boards and this allowed him to sail between islands. He used it without a rudder but if if one wnated to do a lot more sailing a rudder (and possibly leeboards) would make sense with this kind of rig. The Ljungstrom rig allows reduction of sail area by half when reaching or sailing into the wind. One can also rig a roller furling system that allows you to get the sail completely out of the way quickly. You still have a mast to fool with and I don't think the Ljungstrom rig has as much efficiency as some rigs but if sailing isn't the primary objective it seems to do the job cheaply and simply enough. I wish I could tell the curious where to find out more about the Ljungstrom rig but I can't. I think I read about it in British yachting magazine some years back. If I recall correctly some one had developed a more complex system with twin booms or something. Maybe Mark will have some thoughts on the pros and cons of the rig. I know of a fellow locally who has used a kite and he reports similar experiences to Matt's. It looked like fun to me when I saw it done but more trouble than it was worth. Maybe he just didn't have the hang of it. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Web site address, http://home.ican.net/~735769 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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