>> I however revert to the "ram it full speed up the beach to keep my feet dry approach" once I have gotten a couple of scratches in the gelcoat anyhow. >> Me, too. Gelcoat, being harder than polyethylene, doesn't scratch as easily. Though I try not to scratch my fiberglass kayak unnecessarily, I don't think I really treat it that much differently than a polyethylene kayak when launching and landing. Take a look at the photos of seal landings and launches in the British sea kayaking books -- those are fiberglass boats they are using! >> Of course if I had a rotomolded plastic kayak I'd do the same thing to try to minimize the fins and curly-Q's that fuzz up the plastic and disrupt the smooth flow of water around the hull by sticking up into it. If I put a scratch in fiberglass it scrapes away some material rather than plowing it up into the boundry layer where roughness can really add a drag penalty. >> Most of the scratches on my three-year-old fiberglass hull are less than the thickness of a fingernail. >> Not only are they likely to be different than the designer intended but once they come out of the mold they aren't the same as others out of the same mold. >> One reason I sold my old Sea Lion was that it was hogbacked -- shallower in the center than at the ends. Every Sea Lion I looked at had this "feature." I was told this was a product of the molding process, and that the original plug did not have it. Also, I know someone who has a permanent dent in the deck of his polyethylene kayak where he bungies his water bottle. >> I tried unsuccessfully to find the newsletter article I read a few years back about the roof rack with four kayaks on it that slid off the roof of a car. Given the reputed toughness of plastic the occupants we surprised that even though it was one of the middle kayaks on the rack it was the plastic kayak that shattered and the fiberglass kayaks suffered either only minor easy to repair damage or some scuffs. If I recall correctly the plastic kayak was way beyond repair and offered in the newsletter to anyone who might want it for use as a planter. Some of my customers had a simialr experience. >> I think it was Bill Newman who once told me about a similar incident during the winter. Bill? Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck Holst wrote: > > << I tried unsuccessfully to find the newsletter article I read a few years > back about the roof rack with four kayaks on it that slid off the roof > of a > car. Given the reputed toughness of plastic the occupants we surprised > that > even though it was one of the middle kayaks on the rack it was the > plastic > kayak that shattered and the fiberglass kayaks suffered either only > minor > easy to repair damage or some scuffs. If I recall correctly the plastic > kayak was way beyond repair and offered in the newsletter to anyone who > might want it for use as a planter. > Some of my customers had a simialr experience. >> > > I think it was Bill Newman who once told me about a similar incident > during the winter. Bill? > I think polyethylene does get brittle in the cold. The probably reason the kayak in the story above broke is that although plastic is plastic (ie, malleable), it becomes less so as it ages, particularly if stored in sunlight, due to the UV effects. I cracked a WW boat on a fairly benign Class I-II river, and once cracked, most plastic is not easily repairable. If it's brittle enough to crack, it's going to be hard to weld, and only certain types of plastic can be welded, anyhow. OTOH, I have dropped plastic boats off car roofs before with no ill effects. If I ever drop a glass boat off a roof, emergency responses will be necessary, either because the owner has had a heart attack, or because he has come after me with a river knife. The boat may well survive the attack, though. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I however revert to the "ram it full speed up the beach to keep my feet > dry approach" once I have gotten a couple of scratches in the gelcoat > anyhow. > >> If you are of the ram-the-beach school, there is nothing quite like a Folbot folding kayak for doing this. The bow and stern have a thick curved aluminum rail protecting them that runs from the tip of the boat and down and under to part way along the keel. The marks they make on sand and any rocks they hit looks like they were made by a plowshare. I often wonder how a Folbot would do for playing kayak polo against plastic and fiberglass boats. While Folbots don't turn that well and so would lack in agility, they would make a mash of any hardshell they hit with their killer ramming ends. I can see a Folbot on a kayak polo team acting like those legendary enforcers that the Boston Celtics use to employ to break arms and legs of opposing team stars. ralph diaz ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
ralph diaz wrote: > > > I however revert to the "ram it full speed up the beach to keep my feet > > dry approach" once I have gotten a couple of scratches in the gelcoat > > anyhow. > > >> > > If you are of the ram-the-beach school, there is nothing quite like a > Folbot folding kayak for doing this. The bow and stern have a thick > curved aluminum rail protecting them that runs from the tip of the boat > and down and under to part way along the keel. The marks they make on > sand and any rocks they hit looks like they were made by a plowshare. > > I often wonder how a Folbot would do for playing kayak polo against > plastic and fiberglass boats. While Folbots don't turn that well and so > would lack in agility, they would make a mash of any hardshell they hit > with their killer ramming ends. I can see a Folbot on a kayak polo team > acting like those legendary enforcers that the Boston Celtics use to > employ to break arms and legs of opposing team stars. > > ralph diaz ...and if that don't get "us" a little respect, why we'll just finish them off with our "stock" paddles!! James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> I often wonder how a Folbot would do for playing kayak polo against plastic and fiberglass boats. While Folbots don't turn that well and so would lack in agility, they would make a mash of any hardshell they hit with their killer ramming ends. I can see a Folbot on a kayak polo team acting like those legendary enforcers that the Boston Celtics use to employ to break arms and legs of opposing team stars. ralph diaz >> Last night I was reading Samuel Eliot Morrison's _The Two Ocean War_, where he describes two battles in which an American destroyer rammed a U-boat only to slide up onto the latter's deck without sinking it. The ensuing battles were fought with knives, coffee mugs, and fists, along with the more usual weapons of war. I doubt that a Folbot would do any more damage to a hardshell (at least, a British one) than those destroyers did to the U-boats. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Like Chuck points out the plastic boats may be more shatter resistant in warm weather, but they scratch and peel and generally get rough and fuzzy much more easily that fiberglass boats. I bash the heck out of my Romany and land it on boulder and cobble beaches without really worrying about it. If I get a little crack or scratch I seal it with gel coat or expoxy, and if I get an honest to God hull breach I might have to put a patch on the inside as well. A heavy fiberglass layup will take much more abuse that most people realize. As long as you are not a cry baby about the little bit of scratching and cosmetic damage that happens from landing on a rocky shore having glass is no big deal. If you want to slam dance with the boulders in the surf zone the impact resistance of tupperware might be a benefit, but in that case I would be more concerned with how brittle my bones are than with how brittle my boat might be. Bill Newman I once had a strap break that was holding down the front of two kayaks on my car while on the highway at full speed. With no lines on the ends of the boats (yes we all know better than to just strap the middle, but most of us do it anyway) the boats stood up tall and proud and tore the rear bar rain gutters and straps and all from the car. The kayaks hit a maximum altitude of about fifteen feet and then tumbled down the highway. It was New Years day in Traverse City Michigan (20 F?) so the in the cold the tupperware boat shattered to pieces with a two foot long section of the bow sepearating from the boat. My British heavy a P&H explorer had the bow and stern tips ground down a little and some spider web cracks along the keel and the side next to the bulkhead. It was still fine to paddle and about six months later I got around to sealing the gel coat and putting a patch on the inside along the keel. Did I trust the structural integrety of the boat after the accident and minor repairs? I crossed Lake Michigan in the that boat without any problems before adding the patch.. Now I know why the explorer has the funny little ends - to protect the deck from road rash whilst tumbling down the freeway at 70 mph! Chuck Holst wrote: > >> > I however revert to the "ram it full speed up the beach to keep my feet > dry approach" once I have gotten a couple of scratches in the gelcoat > anyhow. > >> > > Me, too. Gelcoat, being harder than polyethylene, doesn't scratch as > easily. Though I try not to scratch my fiberglass kayak unnecessarily, I > don't think I really treat it that much differently than a polyethylene > kayak when launching and landing. Take a look at the photos of seal > landings and launches in the British sea kayaking books -- those are > fiberglass boats they are using! > > >> > Of course if I had a rotomolded plastic kayak I'd do the same thing to > try > to minimize the fins and curly-Q's that fuzz up the plastic and disrupt > the > smooth flow of water around the hull by sticking up into it. If I put a > scratch in fiberglass it scrapes away some material rather than plowing > it > up into the boundry layer where roughness can really add a drag penalty. > >> > > Most of the scratches on my three-year-old fiberglass hull are less than > the thickness of a fingernail. > > >> > Not only are they likely to be different than the designer intended but > once > they come out of the mold they aren't the same as others out of the same > mold. > >> > > One reason I sold my old Sea Lion was that it was hogbacked -- shallower > in the center than at the ends. Every Sea Lion I looked at had this > "feature." I was told this was a product of the molding process, and > that the original plug did not have it. Also, I know someone who has a > permanent dent in the deck of his polyethylene kayak where he bungies > his water bottle. > > >> > I tried unsuccessfully to find the newsletter article I read a few years > back about the roof rack with four kayaks on it that slid off the roof > of a > car. Given the reputed toughness of plastic the occupants we surprised > that > even though it was one of the middle kayaks on the rack it was the > plastic > kayak that shattered and the fiberglass kayaks suffered either only > minor > easy to repair damage or some scuffs. If I recall correctly the plastic > kayak was way beyond repair and offered in the newsletter to anyone who > might want it for use as a planter. > Some of my customers had a simialr experience. > >> > > I think it was Bill Newman who once told me about a similar incident > during the winter. Bill? > > Chuck Holst > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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