PaddleWise by thread

From: Peter Veng-Pedersen <veng_at_uiowa.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] No need for a rudder... finally
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:51:10 -0000
I spend several days trying out many sea yaks at demo days here in the
Midwest region and got quite annoyed by the need for using a rudder for
directional stability when a significant wind is blowing. Also, at aerobic
speed many yaks tend to diverge from the intended direction if you skip a
couple of strokes for a little break or do not "closely balance"  your
stokes. I was NOT impressed about several of the "top of the line" sea yaks.
Trying the Cape Horn  (http://www.wildsys.com/kayaks.html  ) was a VERY
pleasant experience. There is something quite magic about this hull design.
No wonder WS claim they spend more R&D on this design that any other of
their designs. (A big compliment to the designer Harrie Tieken  ). I am now
a very happy owner of a Cape Horn. My advice to anybody planning on buying a
sea yak DON'T trust anybody about the suitability for you. TRY IT OUT !!!
Peter
P.S. I have no association with WS
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Williams <paddler_at_loxinfo.co.th>
To: Paddlewise news group <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 1999 3:43 AM
Subject: [Paddlewise] No need for a rudder... finally


> Hi y'all,
>
> A while ago we had a little debate going about the need use a rudder.
Well,
> I was one of those who saw nothing wrong with using a rudder.  Others
stated
> firmly that if you have a good design, you shouldn't ever need a rudder.
>
> I now have a different opinion after paddling a Wilderness Systems Cape
> Horn.  My old paddling buddy Andy Zimmerman (Wilderness Systems) is here
in
> sunny southern Thailand visiting us.  He brought over some Cape Horns.
Wow,
> what a nice boat.  I'm at the upper recommended weight (I weigh 215 lbs.),
> yet the boat handles beautifully.  I had absolutely no problem with
tracking
> even in a quartering sea. We encountered a wide variety of conditions
> without any handling problems. We had some novices with us on a recent
> paddle and they also experienced no problems with tracking.
>
> It's also one of the most comfortable boats I've ever paddled.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> Dave Williams, Director PaddleAsia
>
> dave_at_paddleasia.com
> http://paddleasia.com
>
> 93/6 Soi Samakit 2, Yaowarat Road
> Phuket Town, Phuket 83000
> Thailand
>
>
>
>
>
***************************************************************************
> PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and
not
> to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
> Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
>
***************************************************************************
>

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Peter van den Hurk <pvdhurk_at_ufl.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] No need for a rudder... finally
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 14:10:47 -0600
This is an interesting message, which I would like to hear more about,
especially from actual kayak designers. It is my impression that some
kayaks are properly designed for use without a rudder, and for other kayaks
that do have a rudder it needs to be used because it is part of the design.
I have noticed that both Dagger Magellans and Perception Chinooks perform
very poor in side wind with the rudder up. Which is understandable when you
look at the hull design (no keel or hard chines). With the rudder out of
the water, this works as a sail at the rear end of the kayak. Even though
the rudder area in the side wind is relatively small, it needs little force
to pivot the boat because the arm to the center of gravity of the boat is
so long (basic physics). For these boats you really need to have the rudder
down in side wind. (Which created a severe problem the other day because
one of the footpegs of the Chinook had gone missing, and thus it could only
be paddled with the rudder up).

This brings me to a related problem: how do kayaks without a rudder perform
when gear is packed on top of the boat? We went on a 5 day camping trip in
the Everglades before Christmas. Because we had to bring all our water (6
gallon per boat), food, a tent to survive the bugs and a sleeping pad to
get at least some sleep on the chickees, we could not avoid to tie dry bags
on top of the kayaks. I was very happy to have a rudder, because I could
feel the 2 drybags on top of my rear hatch working as a sail in side wind.
In other words: try a new boat also with gear on top if you plan on doing
serious touring (which I guess the Cape Horn is not intended for).

Another Peter

At 11:51 AM 1/3/00 -0000, Peter Veng-Pedersen wrote:
>I spend several days trying out many sea yaks at demo days here in the
>Midwest region and got quite annoyed by the need for using a rudder for
>directional stability when a significant wind is blowing. Also, at aerobic
>speed many yaks tend to diverge from the intended direction if you skip a
>couple of strokes for a little break or do not "closely balance"  your
>stokes. I was NOT impressed about several of the "top of the line" sea yaks.
>Trying the Cape Horn  (http://www.wildsys.com/kayaks.html  ) was a VERY
>pleasant experience. There is something quite magic about this hull design.
>No wonder WS claim they spend more R&D on this design that any other of
>their designs. (A big compliment to the designer Harrie Tieken  ). I am now
>a very happy owner of a Cape Horn. My advice to anybody planning on buying a
>sea yak DON'T trust anybody about the suitability for you. TRY IT OUT !!!
>Peter


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:06 PDT