Personally, I try to avoid drinking water that may be contaminated with fecal matter. I don't care how it is filtered or chemically doctored. How hard can it be to find a reasonably clear stream, not downstream of someone's outhouse or sewage outfall, to use as a source for your filter? Of course animal fecal matter is a good possibility, and is the probable reason for the spread of giardia, etc., throughout the watersheds of the world, also the reason the watersheds don't get a chance to clean themselves out. But that is protozoan and/or bacterial infection. I haven't heard that human viruses were being spread by this means. I hope not! If you want to be 199% safe, you are in the wrong sport. Filtering the water, even with your filter, and choosing the source to begin with, should reduce the risk to an acceptable minimum, just as we do for all the other risks we take. Rob. (In Terrace, BC, where we can still drink the water straight off the hillside, although we probably shouldn't.) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 05:17 PM 01/25/2000 -0800, Rob MacDonald wrote: >How hard can it be to find a reasonably clear stream, not downstream of >someone's outhouse or sewage outfall, to use as a source for your filter? In California, more-or-less impossible. Our small rivers are dry most of the year and the big ones ... drink at your own risk. I carry bottled water on my kayak. >I haven't heard that human viruses were being spread by this means. I hope not! Unfortunately the "big 3" virus diseases spread through polluted drinking water are cholera, typhus, and listeria. >Rob. (In Terrace, BC, where we can still drink the water straight off the >hillside, although we probably shouldn't.) jerry. In sunny but not unpolluted California. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: Rob MacDonald <robm_at_udl.com> To: <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 7:17 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] Sweet Water Filters > (SNIP) > How hard can it be to find a reasonably clear stream, not downstream of > someone's outhouse or sewage outfall, to use as a source for your filter? In the US? (Read my sneer!)You need ( at the least) to include the hog farms of North Carolina after a heavy rainfall,when the manure ponds overflow and contaminate many hundreds of miles of waterways down stream). > SNIP) > (In Terrace, BC, where we can still drink the water straight off the > hillside, although we probably shouldn't.) Oh Canada! The reason I drive 2000 miles to Canada each summer.. ( to Yellowknife NWT) , to fly another 300 miles North, to clean water, and uncrowded adventure. Last year on the Lockhart River was the first time I haven't felt the need to purify water....the first time in 25 years! :) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rob MacDonald wrote: > > Personally, I try to avoid drinking water that may be contaminated with > fecal matter. I don't care how it is filtered or chemically doctored. Well, there is no such surface water, unless you use some criterion such as "below 40 counts per 100 mL of fecal coliform." Every surface source of water is exposed to fecal contamination, albeit from insects, as a starter. What saves us is that our immune systems (and the bacteria indigenous to our guts) overwhelm the tiny amounts of pathogenic stuff in "pure" water. I bet I consumed a few giardia cysts in the 25 years (1966 - 1991) I did **not** filter surface water when I backpacked. However, never contracted the disease. Do filter now. > (In Terrace, BC, where we can still drink the water straight off the > hillside, although we probably shouldn't.) The outfitter I use in the Charlottes makes the same claim about water off the uninhabited parts of Moresby Island, and I bet he's right -- probably a few microbes from bird poop, squirrel poop, bear poop, etc., but with the typical high flow -- such as you have in Terrace -- never affect the human gut, which is **swarming** with the bacteria we need for digestion, etc. After all, none of us is bacteriologically sterile, are we? Yeah, we are swarming with little creatures, **inside us!** I know, more than Gypsykayak wanted to know ... -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR host to a wide variety of very classy bacteria -- but no designer strains, AFAIK *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 26 Jan 00, at 1:03, PaddleWise wrote: > > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:41:28 -0800 > From: Jerry Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sweet Water Filters > -snip- >> human viruses were being spread by this means. I hope not! > > Unfortunately the "big 3" virus diseases spread through polluted drinking water are cholera, typhus, and listeria. > snip > jerry. In sunny but not unpolluted California. Hi, I am not a medic, but as far as I know cholera and typhus are not viral infections (bacteria and protozoa). I am not sure about listeria. Crucial details, if you catch one of these bugs, because their treatment in our part of the world is no big problem. But many viruses can be spread by water, just thinking of menengitis or polio (?). Viral infections are much harder to cure than bacterial infections (like cold vs. flu). I am think most viruses are to small to be filtered, so additional chemical treatment would be necessary to inactivate them. Some filters offer this additional step. My $0.02 Ulli *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
All - My information was confused and incorrect. My apologies. The water-borne virus that is a real threat is "Norwalk-like virus". Paddler magazine (which arrived last night after my confused post) has a fine article about all the ugly stuff that you get from polluted water. jerry. At 09:45 AM 01/26/2000 -0400, Ulli Hoeger wrote: >On 26 Jan 00, at 1:03, PaddleWise wrote: > >> >> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:41:28 -0800 >> From: Jerry Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> >> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sweet Water Filters >> >-snip- >>> human viruses were being spread by this means. I hope not! >> >> Unfortunately the "big 3" virus diseases spread through polluted drinking water are cholera, typhus, and listeria. >> >snip >> jerry. In sunny but not unpolluted California. > >Hi, >I am not a medic, but as far as I know cholera and typhus are not >viral infections (bacteria and protozoa). I am not sure about listeria. >Crucial details, if you catch one of these bugs, because their >treatment in our part of the world is no big problem. >But many viruses can be spread by water, just thinking of >menengitis or polio (?). Viral infections are much harder to cure >than bacterial infections (like cold vs. flu). >I am think most viruses are to small to be filtered, so additional >chemical treatment would be necessary to inactivate them. Some >filters offer this additional step. > >My $0.02 > >Ulli > > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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