Re: [Paddlewise] Now I'm curious: how dangerous _is_ kayaking?

Thought provoking to say the least.  Get home-itis is nothing new.  A few 
years ago (more than I care to admit), I was a young co-pilot and my 
Pilot-In-Command insisted on returning home even though the forecast in the 
mountain passes was real bad.  I couldn't out rank him, but I let him know 
my concerns.  Well, we ended up sitting down in a elderly lady's front 
yard.  Thank goodness she was hard of hearing and the noise didn't bother 
her.  It sure upset her cows.

Nothing is so important that one's safety should be placed at risk.  I 
would rather be late than dead any day.

Thanks
Fred

At 12:19 AM 2/29/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:50:59 -0800, CA Kayaker said:
>
> >> <snip> Are we:  Risk Takers or Crazy?  Some would
>consider others on this list as very risky, adventuresome, out on a limb or
>??????>>
>
>I get a lot of flack from my co-workers about my risky exploits on the sea,
>yet I hear of these same guys who call me names, out every weekend picking
>up different women from the bars, etc, and having unprotected sex. And, the
>women who malign me most, smoke their heads off, yet decry my risky
>behavior. Go figure!
>
> >>We make the judgement as to the amount of risk we, personally, are
>willing to take or expose ourselves to.  Regardless of our acceptable level
>of risk we should endeavor not to put others property or person at risk by
>our actions.  Either members of our paddling party and/or a rescue party
>and take responsibility for our decisions.>>
>
>Good point Fred. This is a tough one for me, personally. If I go off and
>kill myself, so be it. But placing rescue personal at risk isn't mature or
>appreciated. I have not figured out where the balance point occurs where
>one goes beyond imposing acceptable possible risks to outside agencies. In
>my Trial Island incident, I was confident in my abilty to extract myself
>from trouble, but some old lady with a telescope spotted me disapear into a
>huge overfall wave, so called the authorites. (I later found out she did
>not see me struggling in the water, she simply believed I had instantly
>vanished and was concerened when nothing came out the other end). I really
>didn't want rescue people out there, and did not summon the rescue
>authorities, but you can't plan everything.
>
> >> Risk is a very subjective issue
>and personal to each of us.>>
>
>It sure is. I paddle with B.A.D written all over me (Balls, Attitude,
>Determination). One tries to mellow out and sometimes finds a degree of
>success from time to time, but we all have different tolerances to risk,
>and I don't think anyone can determine a formula or a sea-rating system to
>objectify the equation.
>
> >> When paddling with a group we should not be
>afraid to speak out to the stronger members that we are getting in over our
>heads or simply don't feel comfortable with the conditions.  Certainly not
>afraid of embarrassing ourselves in front of more experienced
>paddlers.  That is what I consider an avoidable and unnecessary risk -
>group dynamics that ultimately put all at risk.>>
>
>Now you are on to something, Fred. We have had this discussion before on
>PW. I was hoping SK Magazine would get the Storm Island story out soon, as
>it centers on this issue of group dynamics and risk. It is getting to the
>point where I may just post my version if something isn't resolved this
>year with the story's publishing. But I digress.
>
>What I wanted to mention specifically, is an incident last year involving
>two paddlers. The first one was one who I ran a story about in SK Mag a
>couple of years ago. He was a novice back then, and came around a point of
>land into six foot breaking seas, bailed, and repeatedly attempted
>partially successful paddle float reentries. (Ralph did an excellent job
>recently, posting how easy it is for novices to make those kinds of
>failures where they don't anticipate ahead.)
>
>I stop in to see this fellow every once and awhile. He did not do much
>paddling after nearly loosing his life those two years ago. I kept
>encouraging him to get out more with other people. He finally did. Last
>time I spoke with him, he had another tale to tell. He was out with a newer
>paddling friend who had similar experience levels. They were returning from
>an overnight paddle, across a fairly open piece of water between the US and
>Canadian border. Bob wasn't too happy about leaving shore. He indicated to
>his new friend that wind was predicted for the afternoon, and given the
>off-season values for that time of year, if the weather picked up earlier
>(as it often does in our difficult-to-predict area of the Pacific
>Northwest) then it could impede an efficient crossing. Why not wait.
>
>The other fellow had commitments back in town. Bob was upset, because he
>had specifically indicated that an open-schedule should be allowed for. As
>the two got further out, passing the half-way point finally, the wind
>picked up dramatically. The area around James Island is well known for tide
>movement. Wind/tide opposition creates steep seas in very, very short
>order. Well, within minutes, Bob's new buddy went over. His "pool-roll"
>failed, and out he came. Bob was able to render quick assistance, as he had
>"purposely kept close" in his words. Getting him back in proved a bit
>difficult, given the lack of proper immersion apparel. Eventually, Bob got
>him in and back to shore, where there was no option but to wait it out
>another day. A warm fire helped them to regain their spirits, but not
>before Bob (a big x-military bloke) swore up and down and all over the guy.
>
>Bob told me he vowed that day, to never let himself be talked into a
>dangerous situation again. He already made one mistake with himself the
>previous year and then found himself in the pages of a kayak magazine
>(which he only agreed to, BTW, as I promised him it would more than likely
>prevent similar near-tragedies or worse). Bob matter-of-factly mentioned to
>me as I left his home, that in future, he would obviously try to discourage
>someone from doing something he considered risky behavior, but that if push
>came to shove again, the other individual or individuals were welcome to go
>"kill themselves". Bob would remain on the beach, awaiting a wider window
>of opportunity and less risk, because Bob knows what it is like to be in
>cold water and deep trouble.
>
>BC'in Ya
>Doug Lloyd (who has a million posts he like to do, but is sooooo busy -
>hey, that way I don't get flamed. Smart guy, I am!)

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