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From: Arthur Hebert <seacajun_at_gs.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] Jet Ski Buddies
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 07:00:50 -0600
This summer I have three friends with jet skies that will enhance my safety.
I question my abilities during certain conditions when being propelled across
the water with a kite.  Several test will be preformed with the jet ski on
standby in the event a rescue is needed.  I will use three different kites a
7.5 SF, 15 SF, and a 16 SF during different test.   The test will be preformed
using each kite at different times in different wind and sea conditions.
While flying the kite with the kayak in tow I will capsize and allow myself to
be drug by the kite.  I will not be tethered to the kayak.  Hopefully I will
roll back up.....  If the roll fails I will exit the boat.  The jet skies will
go fetch my boat that is still being pulled by the kite.  During another test
I will try being tethered to the kayak, capsize and then exit the boat.
Curious to how much drag my body in the water will produce.  Will it slow the
kayak down enough to retrieve the kite while I am still in the water?  Note;
Between the tether and PFD used there's three points to detach in case of
danger.  I fly a kite whenever possible and have been concerned about the
above mentioned conditions.  I need practice to resolve any problems that may
occur.  I am not anticipating on resolving the problems during one outing.
Surly there will be many days of practice needed with the jet ski as back up.
Go figure a "jet ski" in my safety arsenal.  As with all maneuvers in a kayak
it is repartition that makes us successful.  My buddies are willing to go out
to sea with me as often as I need them.  I will continue these drills till I
am confident in my roll while being pulled by at kite in several
conditions.This is practicing mishaps in a controlled environment.


Happy to have buddies with jet skies.


Arthur Hebert








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From: <LedJube_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Jet Ski Buddies
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:13:10 EST
Arthur,

    I would be very interested to see your results. I've been toying with the 
idea of kits / sails mostly out of curiosity and would love to save some time 
by gaining a decent starting point for exploration.  Maybe I could help rid 
you of those pesky rejected designs that might work within my more limited 
uses. Bon chance!

Jed
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From: ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Jet Ski Buddies
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:34:30 -0800
Arthur Hebert wrote:
> 
> This summer I have three friends with jet skies that will enhance my safety.
> I question my abilities during certain conditions when being propelled across
> the water with a kite.  Several test will be preformed with the jet ski on
> standby in the event a rescue is needed.  I will use three different kites a
> 7.5 SF, 15 SF, and a 16 SF during different test.   The test will be preformed
> using each kite at different times in different wind and sea conditions.
> While flying the kite with the kayak in tow I will capsize and allow myself to
> be drug by the kite.  I will not be tethered to the kayak.  Hopefully I will
> roll back up.....  If the roll fails I will exit the boat.  The jet skies will
> go fetch my boat that is still being pulled by the kite.  During another test
> I will try being tethered to the kayak, capsize and then exit the boat.
> Curious to how much drag my body in the water will produce.  Will it slow the
> kayak down enough to retrieve the kite while I am still in the water?  Note;
> Between the tether and PFD used there's three points to detach in case of
> danger. 

Look's like a useful experiment under controlled conditions.  Jet
skiiers are often bored just jumping boat wakes and chasing down a
runaway kite propelled kayak will give them something to do.  

A technical point.  I don't see that you mentioned to where you attach
the boat end of the kite cord.  I ask because the tie-off point makes a
big difference in the potential tipping forces you might get from a
kite. Take single kayaks.  Normally in a hardshell one you tie off on
the deck cleat or ring in front of  the cockpit.  So you get a certain
amount of torque at some angles of kiting in which the kite may want to
flip your boat.  In a folding kayak single, especially ones with the
open cockpit setup like Folbot and Klepper, kite sailors tie off to the
keelboard or keelbar.  This tie-off point is so low (actually below the
waterline) that the torque that may be trying to turn you over is
virtually negligible.  You may capsize for other reasons of your own,
but not because the kite pulled you over.

Another experiment you may want to try with jet ski buddies is to have
them tow you boat with you in it.  I am not really certain what is the
best way to do this and would like to see some experimenting done.  Here
in NYC we have a round Manhattan swim with kayak escorts.  The way the
race is run, invariably many of the kayakers are caught in a situation
where they face 3 knot currents against them to get back to the takeout,
and this after having paddled 30 miles.  Motorboat escorts have
attempted to tow the paddlers back and in most cases the kayakers being
towed dump.

I suspect that some pattern of towing would eliminate this unfortunate
development but I don't know what.  One would be for the kayaks to raft
up in twos and threes and make certain the motorboat doesn't go too
fast. To my knowledge the swim escort kayaks have not done that.

ralph diaz 
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
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From: Arthur Hebert <seacajun_at_gs.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Jet Ski Buddies
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:49:37 -0600
Greetings Jed,
I will post my results when completed.  I would like any info pertaining to
your experience or future experience.
Arthur


>Arthur,
>
>    I would be very interested to see your results. I've been toying with
the
>idea of kits / sails mostly out of curiosity and would love to save some
time
>by gaining a decent starting point for exploration.  Maybe I could help rid
>you of those pesky rejected designs that might work within my more limited
>uses. Bon chance!
>
>Jed

-----Original Message-----
From: LedJube_at_aol.com <LedJube_at_aol.com>
To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net>
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2000 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Jet Ski Buddies


>Arthur,
>
>    I would be very interested to see your results. I've been toying with
the
>idea of kits / sails mostly out of curiosity and would love to save some
time
>by gaining a decent starting point for exploration.  Maybe I could help rid
>you of those pesky rejected designs that might work within my more limited
>uses. Bon chance!
>
>Jed
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not
>to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
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>

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From: Fernando López Arbarello <uktkayak_at_uol.com.ar>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Jet Ski Buddies
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:35:06 -0300
From: ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
> Another experiment you may want to try with jet ski buddies is to have
> them tow you boat with you in it.  I am not really certain what is the
> best way to do this and would like to see some experimenting done.

Well, I´ve done some of this, but far from experimenting I did it just for
fan. I´ve been towed by an inflatable motorboat, like a Zodiak. I tied a 15m
long rope to the front toggle of my kayak and a guy in the Zodiak grabbed it
tightly. A second guy droved the Zodiak, slowly accelerating under my
request. Remember my kayak has no rudder and is quite unstable ( similar to
the Nordkapp ), so as the speed raised I had to rely on a low brace. In case
I capsized the towing guy simply had to release the rope. Results....????

BIG BIG FUN !!!

I don´t know the speed we reached but it was just the one when the Zodiak´s
hull starts to plane by. I never capsized and as the speed increased the
boat felt very stable, to the point I could rise both hands for short
periods, or even turn the low brace into a rudder and play some slalom
cutting the waves. I think supporting with your bare hands would be good
enough, but as I have dislocated my left shoulder once ( also kayaking), I
didn´t want to take the risk. For the same reason I didn´t want to go
faster. The low brace was not really a brace, as I just kept the paddle in
position "just in case", I loosed my balance. Most of the time it simply
sliced on the water.

The secret is in the driver, who has to gently manoeuvre the boat, and
respect you timing and indications. Capsizing won´t be a problem as the
speed is not so high.

> I suspect that some pattern of towing would eliminate this unfortunate
> development but I don't know what.  One would be for the kayaks to raft
> up in twos and threes and make certain the motorboat doesn't go too
> fast. To my knowledge the swim escort kayaks have not done that.
>

Some years ago with five friends we crossed the "Rio de la Plata", from
"Colonia", Uruguay to "Buenos Aires", in Argentina. For safety we had a 31
ft vessel with us. One of my friends decided to quit so his kayak had to be
towed. After it turned over we realized that towing it with a short line so
the bow remains raised above the water was the solution. Of course you can
do
it from a vessel which is high enough. Towing from a motorboat you may have
to find the appropriate length of the rope so the kayak remains centred by
the wave generated by the boat. There´s a point where the kayak is sucked by
the engine so you can advance without paddling. But this also depends on the
kind of motorboat, its speed, engine, etc.

Best regards.-

U.K.T. - UNION DE KAYAKISTAS DE TRAVESIA
Fernando López Arbarello
uktkayak_at_uol.com.ar






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From: Arthur Hebert <seacajun_at_gs.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Jet Ski Buddies
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:38:10 -0600
>A technical point.  I don't see that you mentioned to where you attach
>the boat end of the kite cord.  I ask because the tie-off point makes a
>big difference in the potential tipping forces you might get from a
>kite. Take single kayaks.  Normally in a hardshell one you tie off on
>the deck cleat or ring in front of  the cockpit.  So you get a certain
>amount of torque at some angles of kiting in which the kite may want to
>flip your boat.  In a folding kayak single, especially ones with the
>open cockpit setup like Folbot and Klepper, kite sailors tie off to the
>keelboard or keelbar.  This tie-off point is so low (actually below the
>waterline) that the torque that may be trying to turn you over is
>virtually negligible.  You may capsize for other reasons of your own,
>but not because the kite pulled you over.

The test will include different points of attachments of kite line to kayak.
The system I have been using is a pulley system.  This system allows an
adjustable "attachment point".  The boat end of the kite cord can be from
within four inches of the bow to about 12 inches fore of the cockpit.  Could
also be anywhere in between.   With the "tug" close to the bow I find at
little more instability compared to having the "tug" closer to the cockpit.
What I like about having the "tug" at the bow is the reducing of the bow
submarine effect that occurs when being pulled close to the cockpit.   The
boat feels stable enough, just kinda a errie feeling being pulled so fast
with a few feet of the bow under water.  Larry Koenig had a good post a
while back on kite flying.  In it he stated how secure he felt with the tug
closer to the cockpit.
 I'm toying with the idea of several other test.  One is deploying a sea
anchor off the stern in order to experience the reaction of the kayak.  In
what condition will this be helpful, I ain't gotta clue.  But I am curious
to see the effects, then I might have a clue.  Never know till ya try.

>Another experiment you may want to try with jet ski buddies is to have
>them tow you boat with you in it.

It looks like being pulled by jet ski may be a good test.  I may have to
bribe them to go slow and not try to play in my wake :-)
Ralph thanks for your insight on all points,
Arthur


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