The folks who put on the symposiums across the country need lots of volunteers to help with tasks such as registration, classroom assistant to the presenters, beach patrollers, and many other things. They ask for volunteers to do one or two shifts of work in exchange for free admission. I did that several years ago in Port Townsend, and I got free admission, free shirts, info packet, etc, and it was fun. I don't have contact info, but I'm sure they have a web page somewhere....... Tina Wes Boyd wrote: >After talking the Western Michigan Symposium up in posts earlier this week, >I was really disappointed to get the flyer for the thing in the mail. >Either they've raised the prices or I didn't remember how bad they were >from last year. $80.00 early registration, $160 for family, $100 for late >registration, adult day registration $50.00. Meals work out to just under >$20 per day. ------------------------------------------------------------- ___________ / OOOOOOO- / I / -OOOOOOO- / I /___________/ / I___________I / Healthy meals on wheels; The BENTO BUGGY website http://www.pcez.com/BentoBuggy ------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes, I couldn't disagree with you more. I've been working with Atlantic Kayak Tours, putting together their skills symposium for this July, so I'm pretty well aware of what the costs are to the seminar hosts. And let me tell you, they are high. Everything costs money. Yes, you do have to pay the coaches - they're not going to travel across the country or across the ocean for their health. And you have to pay to get them here, too. Plus there are site fees, insurance fees, equipment to be bought or rented, small amenities that make for a pleasant time for participants but that add to the cost of the symposium, security, etc., etc.. In our case, none of the people who have been doing the work are being paid, but for some of the bigger symposia, they do have to pay the people who do the work on the symposium. And there are lots of them - the bigger the symposium, the more help you need. In our case, there won't be any commercial sponsors. This symposium will be devoted entirely to developing skills for paddlers who already have skills that are the equivalent of BCU 2 Star or higher. But even when there are commercial sponsors, they don't pay all of the expenses. I was at the Great Lakes Symposium last year, and I considered it to be cheap at the price. No, I don't think that any of these people are trying to gouge kayakers. And I think most, if not all of them would be happy to put on the symposia at no cost. But that's not the reality of things; they just can't do that and survive. Joan Volin On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:29:59 Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> writes: > After talking the Western Michigan Symposium up in posts earlier this > week, > I was really disappointed to get the flyer for the thing in the > mail. > Either they've raised the prices or I didn't remember how bad they > were > from last year. $80.00 early registration, $160 for family, $100 for > late > registration, adult day registration $50.00. Meals work out to just > under > $20 per day. > > I don't have the figures for the current or last year's Great Lakes > Symposium, but I did find the 1998 flyer, and the registration was > like $70 > and $85, and I'm sure they've gone up since then. You also pay > through the > nose for very overcrowded camping, but that goes to the village and > not to > the organizers, and no meals are provided. > > Do sea kayak symposiums everywhere cost like this? Where do these > people > get off charging these kind of rates? "Well, we have to do it to > break > even," I'm sure someone will say quickly. "It costs money to bring > in the > speakers, and stuff." Bull. You look at other stuff, and you can see > that > either the events are financially mismanaged and organizationally > incompetent, or it's sheer Gouging -- with a capital "G" which > rhymes with > "P" which stands for RIP-OFF. > > Cases in point: > > Canoecopia is in two weeks -- the fee is $5 at the door, $10 for the > weekend. They have a better list of speakers than either of the two > symposiums mentioned above, and that goes with the door fee. > > Last spring there was a big whitewater festival down in West Virgina > or > North Carolina or somewhere -- I think it was Gauleyfest, although > I'm not > sure (I didn't go), but the talk on RBP was that the fee was $10 -- > and > that included camping and a ticket for a free beer at the beer tent. > > I've not organized a kayak event, but I've been involved in the > organization of a lot of hiking events. Last year, the North Country > Trail > annual meeting was a flat $25 for four days. Meals were $10 and $15, > and > there was all you could eat and then some. It was a great meeting, > we had > some great speakers, including the editor of "Backpacker" magazine, > and I > was a little upset that we hadn't been able to keep the costs down > to what > they usually are. > > So where do these people get off charging eighty bucks for a three > day > weekend? In the case of the Western Michigan Symposium, I'll bet > sixteen to > twenty grand is the take on gate fees alone. Granted, some of that > has to > go to the site, and some of it has to go to liability, and some of > it has > to go for tags to keep everybody honest, and some of it has to go > for > speakers. While it's wonderfully instructive -- if not humiliating > -- to > watch Doug VanDoren roll a kayak every way but endwise, it's got to > be a > heck of a trip for him to drive from Grand Rapids to Blue Lake, > maybe forty > miles. They are bringing in Ken Fink from Maine, which is clearly > going to > cost a few hundred, but out of a $20,000 budget, it's not going to > be > painful for them to lay out a grand to do it, and I'll bet they > don't spend > that much. > > Or, take the Great Lakes Symposium. This is a much bigger event; > I'll bet > the gross is well over $50,000. Bigger names are there, Derek > Hutchinson, > Nigel Dennis. Other expenses are minimal, maybe a few bucks to the > village > for extra trash pickup, portajohn rental, and the like, but since > the > village is making out like bandits through campground fees (the > village > owns the campground), they shouldn't be much, not to mention all the > business the sea kayakers bring in. I know if I was sitting on the > village > council, I'd be willing to just about let the sea kayakers have it > for > free, due to all the extra business. > > But you know what? I've got a problem with paying through the nose > to spend > a potload of money to hear Nigel Dennis come in to peddle his own > product > and berate everybody else's. Granted, there's a ton to learn from > him, but > he gets so much free advertising he ought to pay to be there. What > are they > paying him, and are they flying him over on the Concorde to boot? > > I don't know what they charge merchants to show up to one of these > things, > but since Great River Outfitters is intimately involved with the > organization of the Great Lakes Symposium, I'd be surprised if they > paid > more than a token fee. I wouldn't be surprised if the organization > paid > them and other dealers to be there. I don't know how it's actually > done > there or elsewhere, but perhaps Matt Bronze can enlighten us a > little -- do > dealers have to pay to attend these events? A token fee, or lots? > > It seems to me that it would worthwhile for a dealer to spend > several > hundred bucks to attend one of these events and have a booth set up, > for > the advertising value, and the fact that you'll go a long way before > you'll > find a bigger group of potential customers in one place at one time. > If > this were a show organized by a commercial outfit, like say, > Showspan, > which runs a lot of shows in this neck of the woods, the dealers > would be > paying big time -- but the dealers would be making a profit by > having the > big number of potential customers there. I'll bet Rutabaga breaks > even or > maybe even loses a little on the organization of Canoecopia, but > they make > it back and even more in sales. > > In either case, organizers are going to get a bigger turnout, and > more > customers, at a gate fee of $5 or $10 a pop, or even free, than they > are at > eighty or a hundred bucks. Do the organizers of these symposiums say > to > themselves, "Well, these are sea kayakers, they've got money, > they'll be > glad to fork it over and we can be lazy and won't have to do the > work to do > it right"? > > Sorry guys. I'm not a rich man. I'm not saying that I have to > squeeze every > dime until Roosevelt cries out in pain, but I do have to be > reasonably > careful with my recreational dollar. By the time everything is said > and > done, it'd cost me $250 to $400 to go to either one of these events > I've > been ranting about. I can find a bigger bang for my recreational > buck > elsewhere; I don't think it cost me $250 to go to Isle Royale for > eight > days last year. I'm planning on going to Canoecopia, but I think > I'll give > the vastly overpriced symposiums a pass until they can get their act > together. > > -- Wes > > Who is obviously feeling a little cranky today . . . > > ************************************************************************* ** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author > and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************* ** ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! 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The LL Bean Sea Kayak Symposium is $135 for a three day weekend, a price I am gladly paying for the chance to learn the things they have to teach. I also am willing to pay because of the possibility to meet so many kayakers that I never would otherwise. The opportunities to hear about places I haven't considered before, techniques that I haven't heard before, and equipment that I want to know more about is worth it to me. Just one person's opinion. Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 2/26/00 9:20:26 PM, boydwe_at_dmci.net writes: << -- Wes Who is obviously feeling a little cranky today . . . >> Wes, I'm not sure I agree with everything in your post but I've got to tell you, it put a huge smile on my face to hear someone dish out a boat-load of pent-up frustration in one shot like that. Go for it. BTW, I do agree with the basic concept of your post, the pricing is scandalous. Take care! Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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