In a message dated 2/1/00 6:24:53 PM, rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com writes: << While this may be true, what is the advantage of extending a western paddle if you are not using it to get more support? My point is that a sweep roll should be 90% hips and 10% arms (no this is not meant to be an exact ratio). When you extend the paddle I assume it is to change that ratio and allow the arms/shoulders to do more work. >> If memory serves, this thread started with a fellow paddler asking for tips about rolling his Feathercraft K1. While I agree with Rob about the best roll keeps the hands in the normal paddling position, those learning to roll often find it easier to extend the paddle until their form fully develops. Certainly any roll is better than none, even an extended paddle roll is better than swimming. Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 2/1/00 10:02:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com writes: > While this may be true, what is the advantage of extending a western paddle > if you are not using it to get more support? My point is that a sweep roll > should be 90% hips and 10% arms (no this is not meant to be an exact ratio). > When you extend the paddle I assume it is to change that ratio and allow the > arms/shoulders to do more work. The extended paddle should allow you to slow the roll rate down without placing more stress on the joints. This allows more time for the hips (CG shift) and the boat's buoyancy to act, especially when overcoming the extra inertia of a heavier, loaded boat or the resistance generated by wind and/or waves. It also allows the kayaker more time to analyze whether his blade angle and other rolling factors are correct. I agree that routinely rolling without hand-shift is the best way to go in most situations. There is less possibility of paddle loss, less loss of time, and it is so fast that it often allows you to use the inertia of the capsize to help the roll. However, I think the extended roll (with traditional paddle or Euro-blade) is a good back-up when done correctly. I also think that regular practice of extended-paddle rolls, trying to roll as smoothly and slowly as possible, is a good way to analyze and perfect roll technique. I know that when I feel stress on my joints, it is either because I have rushed my roll -- trying to snap or muscle myself up, or blown the blade angle -- doing a high-angle sweeping brace which turns the boat, slows the sweep and generates a lot of drag. On a bad day, I can blow a roll in either of these ways, regardless of how my hands are placed on the paddle and regardless of whether I'm using my Greenland stick or a Euro-blade. > The only bad roll is the one that leaves you with your head underwater. . . . Or your arm in a sling. Happy Paddling, Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> The extended paddle should allow you to slow the roll rate down without > placing more stress on the joints. This allows more time for the > hips (CG > shift) and the boat's buoyancy to act, especially when overcoming > the extra > inertia of a heavier, loaded boat or the resistance generated by > wind and/or > waves. I agree 100% that slowing down the roll is one of the best ways to analyze and perfect technique; however there is no need to extend the paddle to do this. >It also allows the kayaker more time to analyze whether his blade > angle and other rolling factors are correct. My whole point when I replied to this post the first time is that with enough practice you don't need more time to analyze your setup. It becomes totally instinctive, you can feel the blade angle and correct it throughout the sweep with your hands in home position. If you like the extended paddle roll for a backup I think that's great. A mistake I see far too many people make is focusing on what to do when they miss their first roll rather that making sure they never miss the first one. Cheers -- Rob Cookson http://www.3hats.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of > HTERVORT_at_aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 11:01 AM > To: rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com; paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rolling was Instability... > > > In a message dated 2/1/00 10:02:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, > rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com writes: > > > While this may be true, what is the advantage of extending a > western paddle > > if you are not using it to get more support? My point is that > a sweep roll > > should be 90% hips and 10% arms (no this is not meant to be an exact > ratio). > > When you extend the paddle I assume it is to change that ratio > and allow > the > > arms/shoulders to do more work. > > > I agree that routinely rolling without hand-shift is the best way > to go in > most situations. There is less possibility of paddle loss, less loss of > time, and it is so fast that it often allows you to use the > inertia of the > capsize to help the roll. > > However, I think the extended roll (with traditional paddle or > Euro-blade) is > a good back-up when done correctly. I also think that regular > practice of > extended-paddle rolls, trying to roll as smoothly and slowly as > possible, is > a good way to analyze and perfect roll technique. I know that > when I feel > stress on my joints, it is either because I have rushed my roll > -- trying to > snap or muscle myself up, or blown the blade angle -- doing a high-angle > sweeping brace which turns the boat, slows the sweep and > generates a lot of > drag. On a bad day, I can blow a roll in either of these ways, > regardless of > how my hands are placed on the paddle and regardless of whether > I'm using my > Greenland stick or a Euro-blade. > > > The only bad roll is the one that leaves you with your head underwater. > > . . . Or your arm in a sling. > > Happy Paddling, > Harold > > ****************************************************************** > ********* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the > author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ****************************************************************** > ********* *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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