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From: <Rvilter_at_aol.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Epic Wayfarer and Lightning Standard Touring
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 15:19:29 EST
I've narrowed my choice of paddles to the Epic Wayfarer (probably carbon with 
length-lock) and the Lightning Standard Tour (probably the ultralight).

Here are my questions/observations:

1.  The Wayfarer blade face had a dihedral shape whereas the Lightning blade 
face is flat.  In my experience, a dihedral face helps prevent "fluttering" 
of the blade.  This would seem to make the Wayfarer more attractive, but I 
would like to hear some input on whether this is a real or an imagined 
problem with the Lightning.

2.  I don't want a paddle blade that is too wide (or perhaps more accurately, 
has a large surface area).  An example of a paddle blade which I find too 
"big" for my taste is the Werner San Juan, which has a length of 22" and a 
width of 6 3/4".  By comparison, the Wayfarer (length 18.7" and width 7.1") 
and the Lightning (length 16.5" and width 7.25") also seem to be on the "big 
side".  I would like to hear your views on whether you thing the Wayfarer and 
the Lightning paddle like "big" bladed paddles.

3.  I tend to use a low-angle paddle style as opposed to a high-angle style.  
Is this a relevant factor when selecting between these two paddles?

I would be interested to hear any commentary on the Wayfarer's length-lock 
system (how well does it work, will it wear out etc.).  Any other paddle 
recommendations would also be appreciated.

Thanks for you input,

Bob Vilter

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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ep Wayfarer and Lightn Std Tour
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:02:52 -0800
Rvilter_at_aol.com wrote:

> 1.  The Wayfarer blade face had a dihedral shape whereas the Lightning blade
> face is flat.  In my experience, a dihedral face helps prevent "fluttering"
> of the blade.  This would seem to make the Wayfarer more attractive, but I
> would like to hear some input on whether this is a real or an imagined
> problem with the Lightning.

The Lightning Standard Tour has been my paddle of choice for over 5 years. 
Naturally, I love it.  Before that, I used the Werner San Juan, and discovered
it was too much blade for my joints (elbow and wrist problems big time).  At
first, I felt the Lightning fluttered some, but now it NEVER flutters.  I think
it is a matter of "grooving" your stroke, not the dihedral.

> 2.  I don't want a paddle blade that is too wide (or perhaps more accurately,
> has a large surface area).  An example of a paddle blade which I find too
> "big" for my taste is the Werner San Juan, which has a length of 22" and a
> width of 6 3/4".  By comparison, the Wayfarer (length 18.7" and width 7.1")
> and the Lightning (length 16.5" and width 7.25") also seem to be on the "big
> side".  I would like to hear your views on whether you thing the Wayfarer and
> the Lightning paddle like "big" bladed paddles.

No.  The Standard paddles like a smaller version of the San Juan.  In crude
terms, the WSJ has an "area" of 148.5 sq inches and the LST an "area" of 119.6
sq inches.  (I got these numbers multiplying the dimensions you gave.  A more
accurate comparison could be obtained by outlining each blade on graph paper
and counting squares, or cutting out the outline and weighing the paper.)   Of
course, the best test is to **paddle** them.  Can't hurt them if you avoid
rocks -- get the retailer to let you borrow them for a couple hours of testing.
My local paddleshop would do that.

> 3.  I tend to use a low-angle paddle style as opposed to a high-angle style.
> Is this a relevant factor when selecting between these two paddles?

My Lightning paddles well in low-angle style.  My SO has a Sea Swift
(Eddyline's "max" paddle blade), which demands a more vertical style, which
aggravates my tendonitis.  This is definitely a place where YMMV!  

Strongly suggest you field test a paddle type before you adopt it.  I was lucky
-- the paddle I have been using the last >five years was on sale, and I picked
it up on a whim, not knowing its length (225 cm -- short for most folks) and
style were ideal for me.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: David Seng <David_at_wainet.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Epic Wayfarer and Lightning Standard Touring
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:04:38 -0900
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rvilter_at_aol.com [mailto:Rvilter_at_aol.com]

> 1.  The Wayfarer blade face had a dihedral shape whereas the 
> Lightning blade 
> face is flat.  In my experience, a dihedral face helps 
> prevent "fluttering" 
> of the blade.  This would seem to make the Wayfarer more 
> attractive, but I 
> would like to hear some input on whether this is a real or an 
> imagined 
> problem with the Lightning.

  I've been paddling with a Lightning Ultralight Standard Tour for four+
years now.  The only times I had a problem with blade flutter were when I
first acquired the paddle and would try to "over-power" my stroke.  I soon
learned to adjust my stroke (and became more efficient in the process) and
no longer have any flutter problems at all.  The Ultralight is my paddle of
choice for just about every trip.  And no, I don't lend it to my paddling
buddies, because I know it wouldn't be returned until the end of the day's
journey<g>.

snip
> 
> 3.  I tend to use a low-angle paddle style as opposed to a 
> high-angle style.  
> Is this a relevant factor when selecting between these two paddles?

  I also paddle with a low-angle style and the Ultralight works great for
me.  Can't comment on the Wayfarer.
> 
> I would be interested to hear any commentary on the 
> Wayfarer's length-lock 
> system (how well does it work, will it wear out etc.).  Any 
> other paddle 
> recommendations would also be appreciated.
> 
  For strength and simplicity - the fewer moving parts and pieces the
better.
  You might want to check out http://www.marinerkayaks.com and read their
section on paddles.  It gives a pretty good review of Lightning paddles.
When the day comes that I'm in the market for another paddle I'll be on the
phone calling Hank at Lightning. (no, I don't work for Lightning - I'm just
a very happy Lightning paddle owner)

Dave Seng
Juneau, Alaska
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From: Kirk Olsen <kolsen_at_imagelan.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Epic Wayfarer and Lightning Standard Touring
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:46:32 -0500 (EST)
On Sat, 5 Feb 2000 Rvilter_at_aol.com wrote:

> I've narrowed my choice of paddles to the Epic Wayfarer (probably carbon with 
> length-lock) and the Lightning Standard Tour (probably the ultralight).

I don't think you can go wrong with either paddle.

I've got a custom Lightning ultralight (with oversized struer blades)
I haven't tried the wayfarer but have used an epic wing with length lock.

I plan on buying an Epic wing, with length lock, this coming summer (as 
soon as I justify the $$$, any dealers want to make a quote (privately!))
 
> Here are my questions/observations:
> 
> 1.  The Wayfarer blade face had a dihedral shape whereas the Lightning blade 
> face is flat.  In my experience, a dihedral face helps prevent "fluttering" 
> of the blade.  This would seem to make the Wayfarer more attractive, but I 
> would like to hear some input on whether this is a real or an imagined 
> problem with the Lightning.

The only time I have blade flutter is when I pull too soon or have a lousy
paddle plant.  At normal touring speeds I don't think the Lightning has
fluttered on me.
 
> I would be interested to hear any commentary on the Wayfarer's length-lock 
> system (how well does it work, will it wear out etc.).  Any other paddle 
> recommendations would also be appreciated.

The length lock definitely works.  It was quick to adjust and held the
paddle in the new settings very well.  I only got a chance to use it for
a little while, and didn't take it apart so I can't vouch for the innards
of the length lock.  I was also impressed with the craftsmanship and
finish of the epic paddle, it was a much much nicer paddle than my
wing paddle.

My regular canoe paddle is a Barton, this was the paddle company that Greg
Barton had before starting Epic.  It's been a great paddle.  I would expect
the same from the Epic line.

kirk
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From: John Somers <somers_at_radonc17.ucsf.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Epic Wayfarer and Lightning Standard Touring
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 12:38:48 -0500
In trying to catch up on some e-mail I found:

Bob Vilter wrote:
>I've narrowed my choice of paddles to the Epic Wayfarer (probably carbon with 
>length-lock) and the Lightning Standard Tour (probably the ultralight).
>

Bob, I have both of these paddles and can offer some comparisons.

>
>1.  The Wayfarer blade face had a dihedral shape whereas the Lightning blade 
>face is flat.  In my experience, a dihedral face helps prevent "fluttering" 
>of the blade.  This would seem to make the Wayfarer more attractive, but I 
>would like to hear some input on whether this is a real or an imagined 
>problem with the Lightning.
>

I have not experienced much fluttering at all with the Ultralite Lightning,
but felt quite a lot with the Wayfarer the first couple of hours I used it.
 Best I can figure is that the action of thes two paddles do seem to vary
with paddling angle (see below on question 3).

>2.  I don't want a paddle blade that is too wide (or perhaps more accurately, 
>has a large surface area).  An example of a paddle blade which I find too 
>"big" for my taste is the Werner San Juan, which has a length of 22" and a 
>width of 6 3/4".  By comparison, the Wayfarer (length 18.7" and width 7.1") 
>and the Lightning (length 16.5" and width 7.25") also seem to be on the "big 
>side".  I would like to hear your views on whether you thing the Wayfarer and 
>the Lightning paddle like "big" bladed paddles.
>

Between my Wayfarer and my Lightning, the Wayfarer feels more like a big
bladed paddle, although not radically so, like the Eddyline Swift already
mentioned on the list.  However, the dimensions you've stated are for the
Lightning Standard Tour blade, 95 square inches and that's what I have.
The other two Lightning blade styles are 100 and 106 square inches, so  the
Wayfarer's 105 square inches might feel more like the Lightning Skimmer
blade as far as 'bigness". http://www.paddles.com/catalog/sea.html 
Apples to apples.. The Wayfarer is definitely not a small-area blade. 
   I can maintain a significantly higher paddling cadence with the
one-piece Lightning Ultralite, Standard Tour.  Sometimes that's exactly
what I want.  Other times I want more bite or "purchase" with each stroke,
for example in rough water near rocks, or in surf.   The Wayfarer has that.
 In the Surf model, the Wayfarer also seems to be a more durable paddle,
with a little sacrifice of weight.

>3.  I tend to use a low-angle paddle style as opposed to a high-angle style.  
>Is this a relevant factor when selecting between these two paddles?
>

	Initially, this is a very notable point with the Wayfarer, it does seem to
paddle best at higher angles.  In fact the dealer told me the initial
feeling of flutter would disappear with a high paddling angle.  That seemed
to prove true.  However I have since been able to paddle with it at lower
angles with excellent control and no noticable flutter.  Somehow I have
adapted my handling and strokes to using it, but truthfully I don't know
exactly what adjustments I have made.  

>I would be interested to hear any commentary on the Wayfarer's length-lock 
>system (how well does it work, will it wear out etc.).  Any other paddle 
>recommendations would also be appreciated.
>

	The length-lock system has worked well for me for the past 4 months (I
paddle year-round).  Epic's website has some care tips that are
well-advised to keep the adjustment smooth and easy.
http://www.epicpaddles.com/tips.htm  Again, there's a bit of extra weight,
and some extra $$ involved.
	If it helps anybody, here's how I rationalized spending all that money for
the Wayfarer length-lock.   I told myself, hey, I'm  getting multiple
paddles in one, so usable with everything from my folding kayak's 27-inch
beam to my much narrower touring kayak at 20 inch beam.  Don't know if this
will work to convince a spouse!

	Best advice was someone's "Paddle with each of them before you buy."  I
would say more than once, and in more than one type of condition.  Once you
get a paddle like these you won't want to go back!

	Cheers to all,
		John

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