Ralph wrote: >>Generally in a rescue of a double, you want to get the rear person in first as Bob suggests as they then are in a position to control the rudder (most doubles are ruddered). This is handy for keeping the boat pointed into any seas or wind while getting in the second person in.<< Ralph you must be having an off day, usually I find myself in agreement with what you write on paddlewise. I am always amazed at the magical qualities with which people attribute rudders. I don't think you can get up enough speed while rescuing your partner to have the rudder have any significant effect at all, much less turn and hold the bow into the wind or waves while your partner hangs on and drags in the water. Ralph also wrote: >>I see some couples who I know love each other and who share a passion for seakayaking but who are in singles. While I know singles offer their own reward, I am saddened because I know that in not having a double in their fleet they are missing some opportunities to regenerate love and reaffirm the spirit of sharing that underlies it.<< I see this very differently. It is my view that the couples who do best in a double are the ones who have a captain/crew relationship where one person makes all the decisions and the other always goes along. Communicating with your partner is also much more difficult in the for and aft position of a double rather than with a side by side position (where you can turn to face each other) that is possible paddling two singles. And you don't hate the bow paddler for throwing water back in your face with their paddle with every other stroke or form stopping and starting all the time making it hard to keep your paddle in sync with theirs. I guess I'd rather have a partner than a master or a slave. I got stuck in a double for three weeks once, how I ached for a single. I realized why they were called "divorce machines" after that. Before I thought it was just a joke. BTW Ralph, its Bruce Furrer not Bruce Werner. Werner Furrer is the dad (and Werner Jr. is the brother) of Bruce. This time I wrote the above as I came to it but didn't send it off immediately. As usual I find that someone else (in this case it was Ulli that made my writing above not totally necessary). Paddlewise has made me think about how much better the world will be when more people who share the same interests can get together as a large group and have a dialog. It gives a chance for the best explanation to rise to the surface where I am sure it is generally easily recognized. With a big enough group misinformation gets shot down pretty quickly and the rest of us come away more informed. Ulli wrote: >>In my eyes that -the rudder control- isn't the reason why the person in the rear should reenter first. From my experience rudders on kayaks work only if the boat moves actively against a water current or faster than a current with it. You need water current to hit the rudder to turn the boat into a direction. I agree that the first should enter onto the rear position. That's were he/she is able to see what #2 is doing and can react (bracing, sculling, give a helping hand..) without twisting the head to see what is going on with #2 when #1 would enter into the front position first. << Same conclusion as Ralph about who gets in first but I think this is the real reason to get in the back first. BTW, John Dowd's Sea Kayaking covers double kayaks and rescues pretty well. For those who want to shorten their Werner paddles, Lightning Paddles makes (or at least once did) a joint kit (and for those who look at the process as trivial I might add that the kit came with six pages of instructions). Since the blue glass shafts of both Lightning and Werner paddles are made by the same pole-vaulting pole company I imaging that (if you know if you have the thick or thin shaft on your paddle) there is a good chance that they would interchange and you could use Lightnings kit (if its still available) to shorten a Werner paddle or make it a two-piece. I'll bet one of the reasons Werner doesn't sell a kit is because they have found out that they often spend as much or more time on the phone walking kit customers through the process as it takes them to do it themselves (but they don't get paid for that phone time). Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze wrote: > > Ralph wrote: > >>I see some couples who I know love each other and who share a passion > for seakayaking but who are in singles. While I know singles offer > their own reward, I am saddened because I know that in not having a > double in their fleet they are missing some opportunities to regenerate > love and reaffirm the spirit of sharing that underlies it.<< > I see this very differently. It is my view that the couples who do best in a > double are the ones who have a captain/crew relationship where one person > makes all the decisions and the other always goes along. Communicating with > your partner is also much more difficult in the fore and aft position of a > double rather than with a side by side position (where you can turn to face > each other) than is possible paddling two singles. And you don't hate the > bow paddler for throwing water back in your face with their paddle with > every other stroke or for stopping and starting all the time making it hard > to keep your paddle in sync with theirs. I guess I'd rather have a partner > than a master or a slave. > I got stuck in a double for three weeks once; how I ached for a single. > I realized why they were called "divorce machines" after that. Before I > thought it was just a joke. Owwww! Matt, you are a bigger curmudgeon than I am! My SO and I paddle a double now and then (mostly on multi-day trips in cool places), and we also paddle singles (mostly on day trips). We like both ways, but there is a dimension to the double which is sort of like Ralph's description, and not much like Matt's. I liken it to ballroom dancing, in which the partners move their bodies and feet in tune together, one "leading," to be sure, but both mutually and subtly feeding cues to each other. We also enjoy sharing food and conversation in the double. For us, the double allows more intimacy, and we can talk in lower tones than if we are in separate singles. Sure enough, our paddles clack sometimes when the stern stroker (me, invariably) does not pay attention to the varying cadence of the bow paddler. I regard that as my fault, mainly, and always apologize for the error. In turn, the rudder guy (me) sometimes sends the bow paddler where she does not want to go. She retaliates by directing more of her paddlesplash at my face than usual!! But, these elements are just spice in the pudding, so to speak. We are both gregarious, and both a little headstrong, two qualities which work in opposition in a double, to some extent. But, it makes the double interesting. And, yes, I did divorce the woman I first paddled a double with some 30 years ago, but the incompatibility in the canoe was a symptom of a larger incompatibility in our lives. Even though she and I are friends yet today, we never could ballroom dance together successfully. Maybe that should be the test of whether couples should share a double kayak! Matt, do you dance? <g> -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze wrote: > > Ralph wrote: > >>Generally in a rescue of a double, you want to get the rear person in > first as Bob suggests as they then are in a position to control the > rudder (most doubles are ruddered). This is handy for keeping the boat > pointed into any seas or wind while getting in the second person in.<< > > Ralph you must be having an off day, usually I find myself in agreement with > what you write on paddlewise. > I am always amazed at the magical qualities with which people attribute > rudders. I don't think you can get up enough speed while rescuing your > partner to have the rudder have any significant effect at all, much less > turn and hold the bow into the wind or waves while your partner hangs on and > drags in the water. You and the others who pointed this out are absolutely right in that the rudder wouldn't give you much help in keeping the boat pointed into the wind while static in the water. Where having a person at the rudder helps is in getting into position. As you know in rescues, you often find yourself moving around a bit and any steering by paddle or by rudder is done from the rear by most people. I was thinking more in those terms. Someone also pointed out that the rear person in first is best because it lend for seeing what the next person in is doing. If the first person in goes into the front seat, he or she would have his/her back toward the other person coming in and not be of much help. > > Ralph also wrote: > >>I see some couples who I know love each other and who share a passion > for seakayaking but who are in singles. While I know singles offer > their own reward, I am saddened because I know that in not having a > double in their fleet they are missing some opportunities to regenerate > love and reaffirm the spirit of sharing that underlies it.<< > > I see this very differently. It is my view that the couples who do best in a > double are the ones who have a captain/crew relationship where one person > makes all the decisions and the other always goes along. Communicating with > your partner is also much more difficult in the for and aft position of a > double rather than with a side by side position (where you can turn to face > each other) that is possible paddling two singles. And you don't hate the > bow paddler for throwing water back in your face with their paddle with > every other stroke or form stopping and starting all the time making it hard > to keep your paddle in sync with theirs. I guess I'd rather have a partner > than a master or a slave. > I got stuck in a double for three weeks once, how I ached for a single. > I realized why they were called "divorce machines" after that. Before I > thought it was just a joke. Captain/crew, master/slave. You better not let my wife, my partner of 38 years, hear you saying that.:-) I kinda figured you wouldn't go for a double. I bet I could compile a 90% accurate list of the active members of PaddleWise identifying those who would be good tandem paddlers based on the personalities that come through in their postings. As for divorce machines, I know of at least one case in which a double kayak was actually part of the healing process that helped a separated couple get together. > BTW Ralph, its Bruce Furrer not Bruce Werner. Werner Furrer is the dad (and > Werner Jr. is the brother) of Bruce. I thought of this about a half hour after posting that. I know Bruce quite well. He usually teases me at symposia and shows, one of the last times tossing bread at me in a restaurant when my group didn't get fed right away and his had food. You have to realize that to us Latinos all Anglo-Germanic surnames look alike. :-) ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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