Dave Kruger wrote: <SNIP> >>I liken it to ballroom dancing, in which the partners move their bodies and feet in tune together, one "leading," to be sure, but both mutually and subtly feeding cues to each other. We also enjoy sharing food and conversation in the double. For us, the double allows more intimacy, and we can talk in lower tones than if we are in separate singles.<< Funny, even though I was in a Feathercraft double (where the cockpits are closer than some) I found that I had to practically yell to have my partner hear me from either the front or back position. Miscommunications were common because of this. The front paddler's ears are facing the wrong way to hear from behind and the front paddlers mouth is also facing the wrong way to be easily heard. Side by side in singles its just an easy turn of the head to be face to face and have a nice conversation and if you want a hug you can get together for that too much more easily in a single. I agree paddling in a double together for a week might be a good test before getting married. Dave later wrote: <SNIP> >>Matt, do you dance? << <SNIP> I love to dance but don't do it often enough and developed the taste for it later in life. In an earlier post I said that one of the reasons I went to a symposium was for the dance. I do tend to like wild rock and roll and am totally untrained and get pretty wild. once I slow danced with a partner who made me feel that I was a great dancer but I imagine it was she who was the great dancer. As you know, I also dance on skis and back in the 70's was part of a couples act (as well as competing solo) in national freestyle contests. I have also used a double in some kayak races with a female partner and we got along great but then it was only for and hour or two at a time not several weeks. I would rather tow my partner than have to paddle in a double from either position. Then I won't have to deal with: 1)paddle splash--I put on my Sou'wester rain hat, difficulty communicating, 2)paddle clash--and the tension of trying to avoid it for the stern paddler, 3)wet ride for the bow paddle--as a double being longer and with more weight out towards the ends does not rise as well to the seas as a single although (I'll give Ralph a freebie here) folding kayaks that flex can be somewhat dryer--other things being equal), 4)so wide you feel like you're about to give birth in the stirrups just to work the rudder pedals, 5)longer paddles (less efficient and more difficult to control) are necessary--so the stern paddler can reach over the boat and so the bow paddler doesn't set too high a stroke rate for the stern paddler to keep up, 6)having to agree or negotiate every decision. NO THANKS! Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze wrote: I doubt if I will ever convince Matt or anyone who is dead set against doubles of the virtues of paddling one but he enumerates nicely some complaints that actually bring out a whole litany of positive points for this type of boat: > I would rather tow my partner than have to paddle in a double from either > position. Then I won't have to deal with: > 1)paddle splash--I put on my > Sou'wester rain hat, difficulty communicating, Man (and woman) were put on earth to suffer, at least that what my R.C. catechism said. Paddle splash, as such suffering goes, isn't all that bad. It certainly bits hell and brimfire. A plus side: the world takes on a surreal, hallucinatory look when seen through salt encrusted glasses...and it is all drug free and free. > 2)paddle clash--and the > tension of trying to avoid it for the stern paddler, The nice thing about paddle clash is that it is so easy to blame the other person. How often in life can you feel so justifiably self-righteous and be certain you are right?...paddle clash is always the other paddler's fault. 3)wet ride for the bow > paddle--as a double being longer and with more weight out towards the ends > does not rise as well to the seas as a single although (I'll give Ralph a > freebie here) folding kayaks that flex can be somewhat dryer--other things > being equal) A freebie is always welcome but in truth the person in the bow even in a folding double gets splashed but that also means they act as a windshield...rule one of paddling a double: get somebody big and wide in front and you, the stern paddler, will be as dry as toast. Of course you won't see very much around the hulk sitting in the front. Have some reading material pinned to their back. , 4)so wide you feel like you're about to give birth in the > stirrups just to work the rudder pedals, Gynecologists have been wrestling with what advance to give pregnant women who still want to keep paddling. Matt, your observation holds an answer to this question. 5)longer paddles (less efficient > and more difficult to control) are necessary--so the stern paddler can reach > over the boat and so the bow paddler doesn't set too high a stroke rate for > the stern paddler to keep up, Longer paddles are actually good things to have as they make for more headroom when you use them to hold up a tarp (Greenland storm paddles are the worse). Working out that ratio of paddle lengths for the bow and the stern is good for learning higher mathematics; college-bound students can rate advanced math placement if they have paddled a double. 6)having to agree or negotiate every decision. Do you realize that companies pay big bucks to corporate trainers and facilitators to instill such skills in employees on every level? How much cheaper and more enjoyable it would to take such lessons out of the classroom and put them on the water. > NO THANKS! Matt, this has been just great. The challenges and objections you raise have opened a whole positive side of paddling a double that I never envisioned. YES, THANKS!! :-) ralph :-) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
As someone who has been looking for some way to actually make some money while paddling, Ralph Diaz's recent post has inspired me. I think the following businesses based on his comments could be the answer. << the world takes on a surreal, hallucinatory look when seen through salt encrusted glasses...and it is all drug free and free>> The Ralph Diaz Center (for drug rehabilitation). -- Go cold turkey and still have your hallucinations in a truly natural setting. Heck, some of the real things you get to see are even better than your hallucinations. For those really difficult Hollywood cases we just pair them with Ed Gillet and point them to Hawaii. Talk about your drug free trip. P.S. We WILL do away with that last "and free" part of your comment. <<How often in life can you feel so justifiably self-righteous and be certain you are right?...paddle clash is always the other paddler's fault >> Pyscho Paddle Therapy -- You don't get any better, but at least you know its not your fault. Hey, and you get some fresh air and exercise. Couldn't hurt. << get somebody big and wide in front and you, the stern paddler, will be as dry as toast. Of course you won't see very much around the hulk sitting in the front. Have some reading material pinned to their back. >> Macho Man Kayaking -- With wrestling reaching it's peak as entertainment, there should soon be an availble supply of big wide bodies looking for work. Instead of reading material, we put a minature video camera on them and a monitor on their back (like those new cars with camera/screen instead of rear view mirror). Great for getting young kids interested in paddling. They get wrestling and TV watching along with their kayaking. Might even interest some of those "macho posting" guys. <<to give pregnant women who still want to keep paddling>> "I Don't Know Nuthin Bout Birthin Babies" Kayak Tours -- Natural childbirth in a real natural setting. Just a step up from that giving birth underwater trend a few years ago. Expectant father's have lots of constructive things to do: bailing water and towing for example. Buy the way, I have RN friends who paddle. I am not going to be personally involved in this in any way. << Working out that ratio of paddle lengths for the bow and the stern is good for learning higher mathematics; college-bound students can rate advanced math placement if they have paddled a double.>> The Pascal Paddling Academy - Summer camp for prepartion for the SAT's. Besides your fine example we could include lengthy sessesions on calculation of prismatic coefficients, Taylor series expansions for boat speed calculation, and finite element analysis of wave/hull interaction. We could help them prepare for the verbal section by bringing in "English" experts such as Derek Hutchinson and Nigel Foster. << having to agree or negotiate every decision. Do you realize that companies pay big bucks to corporate trainers and facilitators to instill such skills in employees on every level? >> The Winning Through Capsize School of Business -- Put a whole new light on that old "sink the competition" idea. Maybe if peolple thought it would make them money they would go out and practice their rescue techniques more often. I know I would. If anyone would like to invest in one of these great business ventures I can be contacted at: Dry Hole Investments 911 On the Water Ave. Kayak (oops I mean) Suite #1 Corpus Christi, Tx. 78413 Folding kayaks (preferrably doulbles),Gortex paddling clothing, greenland paddles, and airline tickets to Alaska, Hawaii, or England will be accepted in lieu of cash. Not so Sincerely Mark J. Arnold MJAkayaker_at_aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph said: <Massive snip> >>>Gynecologists have been wrestling with what advance to give pregnant women who still want to keep paddling. Matt, your observation holds an answer to this question.>>> Ralph, that should be OBGYN's, not gynecologists - which would be perhaps more inclusive of the specialty dealing with the birthing process. As far as doubles, that's how I got my wife turned on to the sport; then each subsequent year, after year two of our marriage, I placed her in narrower and narrower singles. Now she is almost as single-minded as Matt, and as narrow-minded as me! I'll follow-up with a post about a narrow-kayak rescue and a double that was along in the group. I'll be back! BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 3/10/00 11:59:07 PM, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com writes: << Matt, this has been just great. The challenges and objections you raise have opened a whole positive side of paddling a double that I never envisioned. YES, THANKS!! >> Ralph, You are a treasure! Matt, I got a kick out of your reply and between the two of you I've had a great laugh. Now I have an addition to my list of boats I need to try. I want to get one of the guys at the pool to let me try their ww boats. I'd like to try a folder but I don't want to frighten their owners. I only know one person with a single and as long as it takes her to put it together we'd better have a nice long paddle planed after my trial. Now I have to try the tandem but maybe it should be with someone who is known for their tolerance of klutzes. Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks, Ralph. You can always lighten up a heavy discussion with some down-to-earth philosophy. I really chortled over your response. Joan On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 23:49:20 -0800 ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> writes: > Matt Broze wrote: > > I doubt if I will ever convince Matt or anyone who is dead set > against > doubles of the virtues of paddling one but he enumerates nicely some > complaints that actually bring out a whole litany of positive points > for > this type of boat: > > > I would rather tow my partner than have to paddle in a double from > either > > position. Then I won't have to deal with: > > > 1)paddle splash--I put on my > > Sou'wester rain hat, difficulty communicating, > > Man (and woman) were put on earth to suffer, at least that what my > R.C. > catechism said. Paddle splash, as such suffering goes, isn't all > that > bad. It certainly bits hell and brimfire. A plus side: the world > takes > on a surreal, hallucinatory look when seen through salt encrusted > glasses...and it is all drug free and free. > > > > 2)paddle clash--and the > > tension of trying to avoid it for the stern paddler, > > The nice thing about paddle clash is that it is so easy to blame the > other person. How often in life can you feel so justifiably > self-righteous and be certain you are right?...paddle clash is always > the other paddler's fault. > > 3)wet ride for the bow > > paddle--as a double being longer and with more weight out towards > the ends > > does not rise as well to the seas as a single although (I'll give > Ralph a > > freebie here) folding kayaks that flex can be somewhat > dryer--other things > > being equal) > > A freebie is always welcome but in truth the person in the bow even > in a > folding double gets splashed but that also means they act as a > windshield...rule one of paddling a double: get somebody big and > wide in > front and you, the stern paddler, will be as dry as toast. Of course > you won't see very much around the hulk sitting in the front. Have > some > reading material pinned to their back. > > , 4)so wide you feel like you're about to give birth in the > > stirrups just to work the rudder pedals, > > Gynecologists have been wrestling with what advance to give pregnant > women who still want to keep paddling. Matt, your observation holds > an > answer to this question. > > 5)longer paddles (less efficient > > and more difficult to control) are necessary--so the stern paddler > can reach > > over the boat and so the bow paddler doesn't set too high a stroke > rate for > > the stern paddler to keep up, > > Longer paddles are actually good things to have as they make for more > headroom when you use them to hold up a tarp (Greenland storm paddles > are the worse). Working out that ratio of paddle lengths for the bow > and the stern is good for learning higher mathematics; college-bound > students can rate advanced math placement if they have paddled a > double. > > > 6)having to agree or negotiate every decision. > > Do you realize that companies pay big bucks to corporate trainers and > facilitators to instill such skills in employees on every level? How > much cheaper and more enjoyable it would to take such lessons out of > the > classroom and put them on the water. > > > NO THANKS! > > Matt, this has been just great. The challenges and objections you > raise > have opened a whole positive side of paddling a double that I never > envisioned. YES, THANKS!! > > :-) ralph :-) > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter > PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 > Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com > "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ************************************************************************* ** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author > and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************* ** ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>I found that I had to practically yell to have my partner >hear me from either the front or back position. One of the big disadvantages of a double when it's windy. > and if you want a hug >you can get together for that too much more easily in a single. Definitely so. Maybe that's why we paddle singles..... >2)paddle clash--and the >tension of trying to avoid it for the stern paddler, What's that (clash). Ohh you're paddling one of those short boats... >3)wet ride for the bow paddle-- One friend's comment, women are built to suffer so they go in the front. His wife was bigger than him so kept him dry. Also as owner/captain I always paddle in command. > 4)so wide Why, there's no need to be all that much wider. Eric (the above owner) has a narrower double than mine and it always felt perfectly stable. I know the design has been down south into the "Roaring Forties" Fiordland. > 5)longer paddles As I can paddle a single with a 210 cm paddle, a double should be/is easy enough with my standard 220 cm. If it isn't, it is too wide. > and so the bow paddler doesn't set too high a stroke rate for >the stern paddler to keep up, The reason I designed mine with the paddlers apart was to take novices and not worry about their paddling style. In this country the rental doubles have a centre hatch for load carrying and to avoid paddle clash. The one design that didn't has been redesigned. > 6)having to agree or negotiate every decision. The reverse of two singles, one decision maker, the Captain in the back. With singles it can be, needs to be negotiated. At least you know the person behind you is still with you not like on one guided trip I did where the other paddler insisted on paddling in my wake and hadn't learnt to surf a boat so it was a matter of continually turning to see where she'd got to and stopping to let her catch up. The Fiji trip, it was necessary to take a double so the slowest paddler could stay with the group. Going to windward was hard work (for me) but running I could sit back and let the front paddler paddle and hope the group would keep up with us. Alex . . Alex (Sandy) Ferguson Chemistry Department University of Canterbury New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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