At 14:12 03/16/2000 -0600, Steven Jarvis wrote: >As ralph and Ole misunderstood my question, I must have asked it wrong. The >seal I am concerned about is the tunnel around me not the skirt around the >coaming. Though, that seal is also important, of course, as I don't want my >skirt to blow every time I roll. The concern I had was that deep sculling or >rolling in one of the nylon-tunnel skirts would mean a lot of water getting >into the boat between my clothing and the skirt. > >> It sounds like you need one of the combi skirts that has a nylon tunnel >> and a neoprene deck. The neoprene deck will likely fit tight as you >> want to the rim, whereas the nylon tunnel will not be oppressively >> warm. Snap Dragon, among others, makes these. >> > >I looked at Snap Dragon's website today, and they seem to have several >combination models, at least one of which has a neoprene deck, nylon tunnel, >and an adjustable neoprene band at the top of the tunnel to create a snug >fit, but doesn't encase your midsection in neoprene (the "girdle effect," as >it were). > >The 2000 NOC Catalog has a Kokatat GoreTex touring skirt that has a similar >top, though its deck is nylon, not neoprene. That looks interesting, though >a bit pricey (at just under $160). Kokatat doesn't have them on their >website, so I'm assuming they're new for 2000. Anyone seen or tried one of >these? > >Thanks! > >Steve i have one made by prijon, nylon tunnel, with a "suspender" to keep it as high as you want, and shock cord drawstring to keep the top snug. and, it has a mesh deck bag built in for gear [3 1-liter water bottles, sun & bug screen and gloves all fit nice, plus those are great things to have with you if you bail and lose your boat on the river!! it fits most cockpits with a sticky rubber rand. no bungie adjusters or anything, but i've used it on white water boats and sea kayaks, and even one old sea kayak with a super huge cockpit. never blown it, and if you actually seam seal the nylon, very little leakage. i can't do a sculling brace due to my back, but i've never had much water in my boat after a series of assisted rescues [?? the "T" ?? i went over, and maligiaq gave me 1.] his bow 2.] his paddle 3.] the middle of his boat, and once he tried to pull me up [for all that have met him & not me, i was 200+ pounds, to his 130] a funny aside to that below. oin all the skirt has been good. i think it goes for around $175 new. i bought it used, and will buy another when this gets trashed. but i do use it in class III whitewater, and don't take on much water, and my boat is a VERY wet ride in the waves [mfg calls it a sea kayak ;-] when maligiaq and i first worked on rescues together, he wanted to show me how to pull up a paddle to assist. he kept saying to reach across and pull him up. i repetedly asked to make sure he meant across, before he turned himself upside down.... well, the proper thing to do is reach between the boats and pull the person up between the boats... i would have given a dollar to know what went through his mind [besides his life] when he gave the signal for me to start, and i reached all the way across his overturned boat and yanked him up & out of the water from the opposite side he was expecting!! remember i was almost double his weight ;-p i do remember his face had a very startled expression on it!!! it was a wonderful experience, and i would hope everyone on this list gets to really meet him sometime. paddling is not his only gift. mark ps, please note new email address if you've previously saved any of my others 8-) -- #------canoeist[at]dotzen[dot]org-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.jacknjillz.com/paddler [index of Paddling websites I manage] Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club, Colorado River Flows, Poudre Paddlers The Colorado Paddlers' Resource, Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page -- "Why is it that we rejoice at a birth and grieve at a funeral? It is because we are not the person involved" -- Mark Twain *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
One quick addition to this thread which I haven't been following 'til now, but may help Steve Jarvis out, depending on how serious he is about having an "ultimate" spray skirt: I had a Palm neo deck, nylon tunnel skirt modified at the top of the tunnel by a paddling apparel maker. A 4" wide neoprene band was added to the tunnel top. The neoprene is split at both sides (towards the front so as not to impair paddling motion and chafe) with nylon pleats/gussets (?) added. The front neoprene strip is velcroed as are the (4" neoprene) tabs wrapping around from the sides. The elastic band at the top of the nylon tunnel has been removed. With the velcro tabs open, the skirt has ample breathing room around my upper torso (though the PFD must be off as this is about nipple level or higher), hanging loose by the suspenders. The 4" neo top band can be folded down, but crushes up under the PFD which would allow water to pool at the base of the tunnel. With the tabs closed tight, the only water to enter the cockpit is what squeaks in between the pecs on layback start position rolls. On balance bracing, sculling, etc., I might get a few drops slipping through, depending as much on how relaxed I am as anything. It is the most comfortable skirt I've used to date (and also the most expensive!) and use it for touring only. I still use the Feathercraft skirt for rescue work, pool sessions, etc. Mark wrote: > > At 14:12 03/16/2000 -0600, Steven Jarvis wrote: > >As ralph and Ole misunderstood my question, I must have asked it wrong. The > >seal I am concerned about is the tunnel around me not the skirt around the > >coaming. Though, that seal is also important, of course, as I don't want my > >skirt to blow every time I roll. The concern I had was that deep sculling or > >rolling in one of the nylon-tunnel skirts would mean a lot of water getting > >into the boat between my clothing and the skirt. > >I looked at Snap Dragon's website today, and they seem to have several > >combination models, at least one of which has a neoprene deck, nylon tunnel, > >and an adjustable neoprene band at the top of the tunnel to create a snug > >fit, but doesn't encase your midsection in neoprene (the "girdle effect," as > >it were). > > > >The 2000 NOC Catalog has a Kokatat GoreTex touring skirt that has a similar > >top, though its deck is nylon, not neoprene. That looks interesting, though > >a bit pricey (at just under $160). Kokatat doesn't have them on their > >website, so I'm assuming they're new for 2000. Anyone seen or tried one of > >these? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Steve, It sounds like you intend to wear your drysuit with this cooler spray skirt. I don't think you'll notice much of a difference between Nylon and Neoprene with or without the drysuit, maybe even less so with the suit. I have both an all Neoprene and a Neo deck/Nylon tunnel skirt. I find the Neoprene very effective for it's water seal at the combing while, as you know Nylon doesn't seal very well at the combing. Both seem to seal about the same at the chest given that the water will penetrate at the hollow of your spine for the most part. I find the Neoprene tunnel more comfortable than the nylon tunnel. You will perspire with either, since neither will breath. The major shortcoming of the combination is the suspenders that most combination desks use to keep the tunnel on your chest. Certainly try to borrow one before you buy. In my experience all Neoprene is the way to go if you plan to play off-vertical at all. Now a Goretex deck with a belly band would be very interesting. I think Perception offers one, though not GTX it looked interesting and had no suspenders. Best of luck! Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Palm also makes an excellent combi skirt. Have two of then --- one for a Pintail and a larger one for a CLC North Bay. Both are solid on the cockpit rims, and, with a PFD snugged up in a normal manner on the nylon tunnel, neither let in much water. (All will let some in unless you've got a double seal neoprene deal, and they're not that comfortable.) Palm is a Brit outfit --- see any of the British Heavy retailers for a look-see. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steven Wrote: >I'd like one that's perhaps a little more comfortable (in fit and temperature) >than the neoprene (mine's a Perception/Harmony LC-1), but still has a secure >fit so I can practice sculling and rolling without filling my boat full of >water. Excellent question. I'm wondering the same thing. I have Perception's top nylon model which has an adjustable cord and an adjustable waist. Even if I tighten the waist and cord down I still get considerable amount of water in my boat after several rolls. I know that a considerable amount of water is leaking down my spine but I'm not sure that's the only leak. So I've been thinking about going with an all neoprene model. Are they too warm? Has someone found a good compromise? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 3/16/00 2:13:14 PM Central Standard Time, sjarvis_at_dicksonstreet.com writes: looked at Snap Dragon's website today, and they seem to have several combination models, at least one of which has a neoprene deck, nylon tunnel, and an adjustable neoprene band at the top of the tunnel to create a snug fit, but doesn't encase your midsection in neoprene (the "girdle effect," as it were). I have a skirt by Dagger ( I think they call it their tropical skirt) which is, nylon deck, nylon tunnel, and an adjustable neoprene band, ( fastens tightly w/ velcro )and it also has an implosion bar sewn into the deck. Never been severly imploded as of yet so I can't say how effective that feature is. I find that it works pretty well, the bungy cord holds well around the coaming and keeps seepage out in a sculling brace position. It is comfortable and the neoprene band, while allowing a little seepage performs pretty well. Dan Williams *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 05:56 PM 3/16/00 EST, DANJW_at_aol.com wrote: SNIP >I have a skirt by Dagger ( I think they call it their tropical skirt) which >is, nylon deck, nylon tunnel, and an adjustable neoprene band, ( fastens >tightly w/ velcro )and it also has an implosion bar sewn into the deck. Never >been severly imploded as of yet so I can't say how effective that feature is. >I find that it works pretty well, the bungy cord holds well around the >coaming and keeps seepage out in a sculling brace position. It is comfortable >and the neoprene band, while allowing a little seepage performs pretty well. > Dan, et.al., I have a three of the same Dagger skirts. They are the most comfortable skirts I have ever used. One I bought from the Jersey Paddler and the other two I got directly from Dagger. Despite the comfort, I'm a bit disappointed with the skirts' performance. I find that water seeps in at the seam where the deck meets the tunnel. It's the same on all three skirts. I'm sure some tent seam seal goop would probably help, but I feel that the skirts should be leak free, especially when new. This is usually not a problem in the summer when a little wetness has a welcomed cooling effect, however the spring and fall are a different matter. So now, that's when I move to the neoprene deck with nylon tunnel. BTW, the two skirts I got from Dagger were free and an example of the fine service you get from them. I had two older skirts that were showing wear. The wear was reasonable for the use I gave them and I asked Dagger to repair them and I expected to pay for the repair. Dagger sent me two new skirts at no charge. Both this interaction and one previous one (different matter) have left me with a real positive feeling towards how Dagger deals with its customers. YMMV Bill Leonhardt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<< BTW, the two skirts I got from Dagger were free and an example of the fine service you get from them. I had two older skirts that were showing wear. The wear was reasonable for the use I gave them and I asked Dagger to repair them and I expected to pay for the repair. Dagger sent me two new skirts at no charge. Both this interaction and one previous one (different matter) have left me with a real positive feeling towards how Dagger deals with its customers>> I'll second this as my recent experience with their CSR, Hobie, was fantastic to deal with. He went WAY out of his way to take care of the issue I was dealing with. Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>From: Bill Leonhardt <WJLeonhardt_at_bnl.gov> > >I have a skirt by Dagger ( I think they call it their tropical skirt) >which > >is, nylon deck, nylon tunnel, >Dan, et.al., SNIP > >I have a three of the same Dagger skirts. They are the most comfortable >skirts I have ever used. One I bought from the Jersey Paddler and the >other two I got directly from Dagger. > >Despite the comfort, I'm a bit disappointed with the skirts' performance. >I find that water seeps in at the seam where the deck meets the tunnel. >It's the same on all three skirts. I'm sure some tent seam seal goop would >probably help, but I feel that the skirts should be leak free, especially >when new. SNIP >YMMV > >Bill Leonhardt In working in an outdoor retail shop, I know I've had customers surprised to find that they may need to do some hand seam-sealing work even on very high-end tents made by reputable manufacturers. I suspect that the explanations for this may also apply to spray-skirts: Smoother, flater seams lend themselves well to being sealed with a heated tape-sealing machine, but curved, angled, and "bunchy" seams (such as the meeting point of the sprayskirt tunnel with the sprayskirt deck) are difficult-to-impossible to do well and durably with tape. To hand-seal with goop at the factory would be labour-intensive (adding the retail cost in a competitive market)and require huge floor space as a drying area, since the goop takes day or so to cure (unless you add a rather volitile accellerator). I also suspect, although I don't know for sure, that while folks can do one-offs at home without too much risk, that if you were to be using the goops as a regular part of your work, work-place safety regulations would propably require some fairly fancy exhaust-extractor venting. Philip Torrens N49°16' W123°06' *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:08 PM 3/17/00 -0500, Kirk Olsen <kolsen_at_imagelan.com> wrote: >On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Bill Leonhardt wrote: > >> BTW, the two skirts I got from Dagger were free and an example of the fine >> service you get from them. I had two older skirts that were showing wear. >> The wear was reasonable for the use I gave them and I asked Dagger to >> repair them and I expected to pay for the repair. Dagger sent me two new >> skirts at no charge. Both this interaction and one previous one (different >> matter) have left me with a real positive feeling towards how Dagger deals >> with its customers. > >Before or after Dagger got bought up? (last summer I think) > This happened before last summer....Bill *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Actually if the deck was breathable and the tube not to deep it might make an ideal tropical skirt?! An interesting story, A few years back, Nautiraid saw the Snap Dragon type skirt mentioned above. But somewhere between viewing one at a show or somewhere and getting back to the cutting table at the factory, the Nautiraid people got things a bit confused. They wound up producing a spray skirt with the tunnel of neoprene and the deck of nylon, almost the worse of both worlds!! ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Palm makes a combo skirt with a neoprene deck and breathable tunnel. I've been using one for a couple of years and am very pleased with it. I also have the perception skirt with the neoprene waist band and nylon deck. It's got an implosion bar built in. I sometimes use it when I want to look festive and don't want to drag the Palm around. - *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:11 PDT