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From: Knox <knoxb_at_lvnworth.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] kayak trip information
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:31:15 -0600
I recently purchased a Folbot GII with a trip DOWN the Missouri River in
mind.  I live near Kansas City and would like to fly the boat north and
float home.  This is my mid-life adventure...it was this or a Harley.

Surely someone has done this since Lewis and Clark...I was wondering what
information might be available out there.  I've never kayaked and I was
born and raised in West Texas where water was for drinking, not floating
upon.

I camp, hike, and fish, so I understand about food, water, PFDs, etc.

What am I missing?  What could I do stupid that would endanger my life or trip?

What special equipment should I consider?  A foot rudder?

I'm not smart enough to know what to ask.

Thanks,
Buddy Knox



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From: <tfj_at_interaccess.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayak trip information
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:27:32 -0600
Life insurance?

Knox wrote:

> I recently purchased a Folbot GII with a trip DOWN the Missouri River in
> mind.  I live near Kansas City and would like to fly the boat north and
> float home.  This is my mid-life adventure...it was this or a Harley.
>
> Surely someone has done this since Lewis and Clark...I was wondering what
> information might be available out there.  I've never kayaked and I was
> born and raised in West Texas where water was for drinking, not floating
> upon.
>
> I camp, hike, and fish, so I understand about food, water, PFDs, etc.
>
> What am I missing?  What could I do stupid that would endanger my life or trip?
>
> What special equipment should I consider?  A foot rudder?
>
> I'm not smart enough to know what to ask.
>
> Thanks,
> Buddy Knox
>
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From: MSN/RiDem <RiDem_at_email.msn.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayak trip information
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:38:29 -0500
Well...you already have a GREAT troll line, that's for sure. (LOL)

1)How far west on the Missouri are you planning to start? Fort Peck
Reservoir (eastern MT) or all the way back at  the Gates of the Mountains
near Helena MT, or even further back like Fort Benton MT, which was the head
of navigable waters for steamboats?  There are a lot of dams on the
Missouri, making for big windy reservoirs in MT & NoDak, power boats to
avoid, and large dams to portage around.

2)What is your timetable?  You have about 2000 miles of Big Muddy, depending
on starting point. May can be really "sucky" in MT, with occasional snow
squalls ( in a bad year). Same for June (remember the weather swoops down
from  Alberta and Saskatchewan.) By July eastern MT and North Dakota can be
extremely hot! In eastern MT water can be tough to find. Don't count on
drinking the Missouri River where it flows "free". The "Wild and Scenic
River " section of the Missouri is heavily used in season by outfitters. A
few miles east (in the CM Russell WildLife Refuge ) you are back on the same
River that Lewis and Clark saw. It is beautiful there. Then you have to get
across Fort Peck Reservoir.....

By the time you reach Lake  Sakakawea in NoDak (near Williston) , you will
be ready to quit, OR decide to paddle the rest of the way down the
Mississippi to the Gulf.

There was a father-son trip from MT to the Gulf via the Missouri-Mississippi
written up well and published on the Web. I will try to track it down for
you, I read it 6 years ago while planning a  500 mile trip on the Little
Missouri River in WY-SoDak_NoDak. (Only paddled 280 miles of it, the best
part of it.)   For me it was the first time in a canoe in 30 years , if you
will consider a Boy Scout merit badge earned in upstate NY when I was 14,
"canoeing".

Don't let the "wise-guys" get to you. BUT... you sure have a LOT of research
and planning ahead! Are you thinking of doing this year? Let me know...THIS
summer I am "off"  to paddle around Bathurst Inlet on the central Canadian
Arctic Coast ( 67N/108W), following part of the route of Franklin/Richardson
in  1821. But your plans sound interesting especially if you pursue the
historical landmarks of the route, contrasting L&C route vs. today's "tamed"
River .

Would also recommend  a stop at the Museum of Western Expansion in St.Louis,
beneath the  Arch.

Regards,
Rich Dempsey
ridem_at_msn.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Knox" <knoxb_at_lvnworth.com>
To: <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 3:31 PM
Subject: [Paddlewise] kayak trip information


> I recently purchased a Folbot GII with a trip DOWN the Missouri River in
> mind.  I live near Kansas City and would like to fly the boat north and
> float home.  This is my mid-life adventure (SNIP) I've never kayaked
(SNIP)
> I camp, hike, and fish, so I understand about food, water, PFDs, etc.
> What am I missing?  What could I do stupid that would endanger my life or
trip?
> What special equipment should I consider?  A foot rudder?
> Thanks,
> Buddy Knox
>
>
>
>
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>


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From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayak trip information
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:59:56
At 02:31 PM 3/26/00 -0600, Knox wrote:

>I camp, hike, and fish, so I understand about food, water, PFDs, etc.
>
>What am I missing?  What could I do stupid that would endanger my life or
trip?
>
>What special equipment should I consider?  A foot rudder?

It's been done -- not real frequently, but often enough. I know a guy that
has done the length of the Missouri, ending up the trip going up the
Mississippi and Illinois to the Great Lakes. Somewhere, buried on the
"Wavelength" web page, is a story by a guy that took a sorta kayak from
Saskatchewan down the Missouri, Mississippi, up the Atlantac Coast and then
up the St. Lawrence, then back home. "Blue Skies Across North America" it's
called. However, not a lot of information for what you're planning.

Some thoughts spring to mind:

First, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get some experience -- by
which I don't necessarily mean years, but some time spent with the boat
under a variety of conditions to get yourself used to what you're dealing
with. Most foldables are pretty stable and user friendly, if not
necessarily the #1 choice for such a trip. A GII ought to be OK.

Second, although it's not directly applicable to your trip, check out a
copy of "River Horse" by William Least Heat Moon. He's going up the Misery,
not down, in a power boat, and so forth, but has some observations that
will give you food for thought. It's fairly common in the bookstores today,
and in libraries. Only about a quarter of it pertains to your trip, but
it'll be worth the time.

Third, remember the second most common phrase from Lewis and Clark, after,
"We proceeded onward," to wit, "Musquettors verry troublesome."

It sounds like a wonderful trip, and one that I'd love to make if I could
clear away the freedom to do it. Don't be afraid to drop stupid questions
onto this list. We may not always agree on everything, but there's plenty
of food for thought in the disagreements.



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From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayak trip information
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 18:45:27
>Mississippi and Illinois to the Great Lakes. Somewhere, buried on the
>"Wavelength" web page, is a story by a guy that took a sorta kayak from
>Saskatchewan down the Missouri, Mississippi, up the Atlantac Coast and then
>up the St. Lawrence, then back home. "Blue Skies Across North America" it's
>called. However, not a lot of information for what you're planning.

Just looked it up. The URL is:

http://www.wavelengthmagazine.com/on97blueskies.html

-- Wes

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From: Shawn W. Baker <baker_at_montana.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayak trip information
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:35:04 -0700
>How far west on the Missouri are you planning to start? Fort Peck
>Reservoir (eastern MT) or all the way back at  the Gates of the Mountains
>near Helena MT, or even further back like Fort Benton MT

Actually, Gates of the Mountains is upstream from Ft. Benton, which is
upstream from Ft. Peck Lake.

I think Gates of the Mountains is the most beautiful part of the whole
river, and is a must-see for this type of trip, but I'm biased, since I
grew up a little over an hour away in Great Falls.

If you start at Gates of the Mountains (Upper Holter Lake), you'll have
to portage Holter Dam, then 80 miles downstream, Black Eagle Dam,
Rainbow Dam, Maroney Falls, and Ryan Dam all near Great Falls.  You'll
paddle right past Giant Springs, which is between Black Eagle and
Rainbow, and is another neat place to see.

I don't think there are any more dams on the Missouri in Montana until
you hit Ft. Peck dam.  I don't know about the "dam" situation in NoDak.

Like Rich said, though, there are lots of power boats and jet skis on
the Missouri in the summertime--mostly just fishermen in the spring and
fall.  And yes, Ft. Benton was the head of navigable waters for the
steamboats.  They'd chug clear upstream from St. Louis.  Way, way too
many dams now!

There is a new Lewis and Clark Interpretive Center in Great Falls.

Shawn

-- 
Shawn W. Baker          0                                    46°53'N
© 2000            ____©/______                              114°06'W
~~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\  ,/      /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
baker_at_montana.com    0        http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/

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From: Shawn W. Baker <baker_at_montana.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayak trip information
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:00:45 -0700
Hi Buddy,
I would think that a portage cart would be a Very Good Thing.

Shawn
> Tell me about the portages...is this a big deal?  Do you just drag the boat out >near the dam, walk it downstream some distance and re-float, or are we talking >miles?  I'd hate to eat up my limited time walking any more than I have to.  >Unfortunately I'm time constrained.  I'll have 10 or 11 days on the water.

You're probably looking at about an average 1/2 mile portage.  (Holter
(1/2 mi), Black Eagle (1/2 mi), Rainbow (1 mi), Ryan (I think about 1/2
mi)).  I'm unfamiliar with Ft. Peck. They're all working hydroelectric
dams, so they have access roads all around them.  I would think that if
you ran into any kind of trouble, you could explain your situation--I'm
sure the average dam worker would be more sympathetic to a guy on an
expedition than to the average local bozo who is just trying to find a
shortcut to his fishing hole, because they know the other guy will be
back, and you'll just be on your way, never to be seen by them again.

> I'm trying to decide if I want to start in MT and go south until I run out of >time or go north some distance and terminate at my home (75 yards uphill from the >Missouri in Fort Leavenworth).

Do your research--depends on what you think will be more interesting.

You could even start at the Missouri Headwaters State Park in Three
Forks, MT, and probably make it to Fort Peck in 11 days, easily.

Shawn

-- 
Shawn W. Baker          0                                    46°53'N
© 2000            ____©/______                              114°06'W
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\  ,/      /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
baker_at_montana.com    0        http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/
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From: Dave Seng <DSeng_at_health.state.ak.us>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] kayak trip information
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:58:47 -0900
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Knox [mailto:knoxb_at_lvnworth.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 11:31 AM
> To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Subject: [Paddlewise] kayak trip information
> 
> 
> I recently purchased a Folbot GII with a trip DOWN the 
> Missouri River in
> mind.  

snip

  I seem to recall an article in the last couple of years in either Sea
Kayaker or Canoe and Kayak or Paddler magazine about a similar trip.  Don't
know if I can find the magazine in my post-move mess, but I'll look.  The
primary difficulty that I recall was that the author had WIND - big wind
that blew for days and caused him no end of trouble.  It sounded like a
grueling trip.  Certainly not a comfortable float down the river.  Might be
worth looking for during the pre-trip research.....

Dave Seng
Juneau, Alaska
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From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] kayak trip information
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:26:45
A couple more URLs that you might like to look at:

http://members.aol.com/Mmcbs2/mizzousd.html

http://members.aol.com/Mmcbs2/mizzoumt.html

http://www.kscon.com/pnp/actmiss.htm

-- Wes

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