Next year I am hoping to purchase a "foldable ", probably a double based on the following needs. Have been looking (on line) at the Klepper Expedition II, or Folboat Greenland II. (and less likely Nautiraid Grand Raid 520). I have looked at M.Edelman's info page. Intended (and future) Use: 1) One 6-8 week "expedition" per year on big lakes or coastal saltwater in the Canadian sub-Arctic and Arctic Coast. No whitewater. Most trips have been "flyins". Fantasies include (eventually) coastal Vietnam, and the large Siberian Rivers (like the Lena), maybe coastal Cuba. 2) Perhaps a half-dozen "day-trips" each year, also on navigable rivers, or protected coastal waters in the US (by job has taken me from Pascagoula MS to the Chesapeake Bay). Most of these places we drive to and spend 8-13 weeks at. Skills: 1) No interest in white water. Unlikely to learn ability to "roll". Wife is an avid "tripper", but not a strong paddler, due to congenital orthopedic problems (mostly shoulder-elbow) . I think that a "double" might be more practical than 2 singles for this reason. 2) Extremely experienced wilderness campers. We travel "heavy" (ie: approx 300 lbs /gear and food for a 6-8 week trip. She weighs about 120, me 180 lbs. so consider 300 lbs gear plus 300 lbs of "paddlers" for total payload for long trips. Any suggestions, short of renting one of each and paddling one for a weekend? Price is not as much an issue, as is ease of assembly, portability, durability, and maximum carrying capacity. We are moving away from a 17 foot canoe, and would have a LOT to learn, not only in packing gear in an enclosed space, but getting used to a double bladed paddle. Mostly I am seeking strong opinions, to weigh against my own still yet uninformed opinions. (I am a big fan of the dialectic!) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
MSN/RiDem wrote: > > Next year I am hoping to purchase a "foldable ", probably a double based on > the following needs. Have been looking (on line) at the Klepper Expedition > II, or Folbot Greenland II. [snip] We travel "heavy" (ie: approx > 300 lbs /gear and food for a 6-8 week trip. She weighs about 120, me 180 > lbs. so consider 300 lbs gear plus 300 lbs of "paddlers" for total payload > for long trips. I'm pretty sure I have loaded a G II to the 600 lbs you estimate, and paddled it in for a couple weeks at a time in the Charlottes and in Barkley Sound -- generally protected waters, but similar to some of the Lockhart River stuff (etc.) you have done. I have the Expedition version, and have replaced the stock waterproof nylon double "porthole" spraydeck with a much more durable (and watertight) Hypalon version which accepts trad. sea kayak neoprene deck/nylon tunnel sprayskirts. Access is easier, also, for launching and landing in surge and small surf. I don't think you would be happy with the G II unless you upgraded the deck, although as a long-time canoe tripper, you are probably used to an open cockpit and a perpetually wet lap! <G> I think the G II is durable enough for your purposes, but in an isolated place I'd take a couple dozen pop rivets and a rivet gun as a backup if there is any extensive portaging to be done. Can't drag these folding thangs laak an awld Grumman, dang it! Another nice feature of the G II is there is a conversion kit for a single paddler for solo trips. Be a lot of boat to paddle, but, heck, if you've paddled a 17 foot Grumman solo ... piece of cake! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
MSN/RiDem wrote: > > Next year I am hoping to purchase a "foldable ", probably a double based on > the following needs. Have been looking (on line) at the Klepper Expedition > II, or Folboat Greenland II. (and less likely Nautiraid Grand Raid 520). I > have looked at M.Edelman's info page. > Mostly I am seeking strong opinions, to weigh against my own still yet > uninformed opinions. (I am a big fan of the dialectic!) > Any suggestions, short of renting one of each and paddling one for a > weekend? Price is not as much an issue, as is ease of assembly, > portability, durability, and maximum carrying capacity. We are moving away > from a 17 foot canoe, and would have a LOT to learn, not only in packing > gear in an enclosed space, but getting used to a double bladed paddle. If money is no object, then I would think the Klepper Expedition double would be the best choice of the two you are considering. This is not to knock the Folbot Greenland II. It is an excellent boat and certainly would do just fine in the situations you describe. But the Klepper is a better boat. Folbot never claims to be building a boat as good as the Klepper at a third of the price. I have heard the company owner acknowledge this, i.e. he has not discovered the secret of alchemy. He makes a boat that provides a lot of value for the money and backs it with excellent customer service and lifetime warranty against breakage. Folbots are improving all the time; witness the switch to an aluminum coaming which is far superior to the plastic they used earlier and has stiffened the boat considerably. But the Klepper hull is of a better grade than that of the Folbot. What is more the hull has keelstripes protecting high wear areas; these strips are 2.5 inch wide at the chines and 10 inches wide across the bottom. The frame is extremely strong with a lot of redundancy built in. The Klepper is somewhat more streamlined and a faster boat. Stated carrying capacity is higher in the Klepper by about 200 pounds. If you go one grade higher and get the Quattro model, capacity goes up to about 1,000 pounds. The military load both the Expedition and Quattro in excess of 1,000 and they do fine. The available spraydeck for the Klepper is better than that on the Folbot. You have to look for the tuckunder version however to get the best setup. Klepper assembly is a bit faster than the Folbot but we are not talking much difference. I can do the Klepper double with a partner in 8 minutes (faster in race conditions), I couldn't do better than about 10 minutes with the Folbot. Marginal difference granted. Packing gear into a closed space. If you set your mind to it, there are ways of getting everything in via the cockpit. There are a number of hints in my book. Basically, shove things in with a paddle half and string tethers from the bags you shove furthest in, so you can retrieve them latter. Another trick is to take the Klepper long bag and fill it about a third and push that end into the stern where it will go all the way to the stern piece; then fill the next two thirds right from the cockpit (the long bag is about the length of the rear compartment. Please don't misinterprete me. The Folbot is fine, it is just that the Klepper is recognized as better. A comparison I always use is that of tents. A North Face is a top of the line tent that is incredibly tough and heavy duty. But Eureka also makes fine tents that provide very good service. The North Face just happens to have thicker coatings, better cloth, tougher poles, better sewing, better webbing straps, etc. Klepper is a North Face; Folbot a Eureka. The differences are not that of buying designer jeans for lots of bucks when Levi's or Wrangler are just as good. Again, I am working off of your comment about money not being an issue. With me it is. I couldn't justify to myself spending Klepper prices and if I were in the market, I would gladly buy a Folbot Greenland II and, from my considerable experience and knowledge, know that I would be very happy with it. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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