ralph diaz wrote: > > MSN/RiDem wrote: > > > > Next year I am hoping to purchase a "foldable ", probably a double based on > > the following needs. Have been looking (on line) at the Klepper Expedition > > II, or Folbot Greenland II. [snip] > > Mostly I am seeking strong opinions, to weigh against my own still yet > > uninformed opinions. (I am a big fan of the dialectic!) [snip] > > If money is no object, then I would think the Klepper Expedition double > would be the best choice of the two you are considering. This is not to > knock the Folbot Greenland II. It is an excellent boat and certainly > would do just fine in the situations you describe. But the Klepper is a > better boat. Folbot never claims to be building a boat as good as the > Klepper at a third of the price. [snip] > Packing gear into a closed space. If you set your mind to it, there are > ways of getting everything in via the cockpit. There are a number of > hints in my book. Basically, shove things in with a paddle half and > string tethers from the bags you shove furthest in, so you can retrieve > them latter. No quarrel here with Ralph's comparison of Klepper and Folbot. Just a small addendum to my earlier post: The Greenland II is much easier to pack than the Kleppers, I imagine (I have no personal experience with Klepper, though I have watched companions pack them). The reason is that the forward and rear decks of the G II can be **unzipped** easily for packing while the hull is fully assembled. No strings or push-the-bag-in-with-a-paddle folderol. Allows for more efficient packing, also. Even so, I imagine you would be using the spaces to the sides of both paddlers for storage, whether in a G II or a Klepper (either of the versions Ralph mentioned). Ralph, maybe you should speak up about some of the Long Haul side storage bags -- a real advantage for expedition-style stuff like the Dempseys do. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > > ralph diaz wrote: > > > > MSN/RiDem wrote: > > > > > > Next year I am hoping to purchase a "foldable ", probably a double based on > > > the following needs. Have been looking (on line) at the Klepper Expedition > > > II, or Folbot Greenland II. [snip] > > > Mostly I am seeking strong opinions, to weigh against my own still yet > > > uninformed opinions. (I am a big fan of the dialectic!) [snip] > > > > If money is no object, then I would think the Klepper Expedition double > > would be the best choice of the two you are considering. This is not to > > knock the Folbot Greenland II. It is an excellent boat and certainly > > would do just fine in the situations you describe. But the Klepper is a > > better boat. Folbot never claims to be building a boat as good as the > > Klepper at a third of the price. [snip] > > > Packing gear into a closed space. If you set your mind to it, there are > > ways of getting everything in via the cockpit. There are a number of > > hints in my book. Basically, shove things in with a paddle half and > > string tethers from the bags you shove furthest in, so you can retrieve > > them latter. > > No quarrel here with Ralph's comparison of Klepper and Folbot. I am happy about that. Sometimes one puts a comparison of two models in such a perspective as I did and then some people wind up saying that I am trashing Folbot, which I never do. > > Just a small addendum to my earlier post: The Greenland II is much easier to > pack than the Kleppers, I imagine (I have no personal experience with Klepper, > though I have watched companions pack them). The reason is that the forward > and rear decks of the G II can be **unzipped** easily for packing while the > hull is fully assembled. No strings or push-the-bag-in-with-a-paddle > folderol. Allows for more efficient packing, also. That is certainly a positive element of the Folbot. It aids in assembly too. If one absolutely wanted greater access to the decked areas of Klepper, one could buy the double with zippered decks. These are offered both as a factory option and as an add on by the Klepper Repair Service in Colorado. > > Even so, I imagine you would be using the spaces to the sides of both paddlers > for storage, whether in a G II or a Klepper (either of the versions Ralph > mentioned). > > Ralph, maybe you should speak up about some of the Long Haul side storage bags > -- a real advantage for expedition-style stuff like the Dempseys do. I am not certain what Long Haul (an offshoot of the Klepper Repair Service in Colorado) is doing with bags of late. I heard they dropped the waterproof ones and are pointing people to some other supplier. But Long Haul does produce a range of sizes of cockpit bags with non-waterproof zippers. The bags clip on to cockpit crossribs and long pieces and are placed right alongside you. Very handy for things you might need while underway such as a warm top or rain gear, if not using a paddling jacket. Also Voyageur dry bags and Gaia Dry Bags have straps that will fit around the ribs and long pieces just like the cockpit bags. YOu generally run these alongside where your legs are. You can literally line the entire area of a Klepper or Folbot double with cockpit bags (for access to things needed along the way) and strapped dry bags (camping gear, food etc). Between the cockpit area of these doubles and all the available tie-ins there plus what you store fore and aft, you can carry an enormous amount of stuff. You can also sit on Voyageur Bags like the Caboose and store clothing there. Just let air in or out as you wish to lower or raise your center of gravity. Many paddlers leave their seats and seatbacks at home and use bags to substitute for them and add to their storage capacity. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I just wonder why a Klepper double is compared to Folbot Greenland for expedition purposes. I always thought that the other classical expedition folding doubles were Nautiraid and Feathercraft. Why not compare them to the Klepper? Reinhold Weber *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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