> -----Original Message----- > From: Sailboat Restorations, Inc. > [mailto:sailboatrestorations_at_worldnet.att.net] > > Thanks very much to all who responded. I received far more > responses off PW > than on, and I appreciate all of them. This comment is right in line with a phenomenon that I've noticed also - that some posts receive _a lot_ more attention "off-line" than in the public forum. Maybe this isn't even worth discussing, but my understanding, which can admittedly be flawed, is that PW was formed for the _sharing_ of information, knowledge, stories, etc between paddlers from all the paddlesports (that involve water). Why all the talk "under the covers"? I sometimes post directly in response to a question, but that's invariably because I goofed up and forgot to reply to the list. Hey - if you have something to share why not share it with the whole group - if it's worth writing you might as well share it with the whole group - you might be surprised at what someone else might learn from your posting - even if you think it's fairly unimportant and innocuous. I'm not saying that direct postings are bad - just wondering "stuff" that could benefit all is being missed. If I'm out-of-line and should really be hanging upside down in my kayak 'cause I'm "all wet" then so be it. Dave Seng politically incorrect in Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Dave and All, > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Seng, Dave <SNIP> > Why all the talk "under the covers"? I sometimes post directly in > response to a question, but that's invariably because I goofed up > and forgot > to reply to the list. Hey - if you have something to share why > not share it > with the whole group - if it's worth writing you might as well > share it with > the whole group - you might be surprised at what someone else might learn > from your posting - even if you think it's fairly unimportant and > innocuous. I agree with you and said something similar in an earlier post though it hasn't shown up yet. In this instance it may be because of the perceived political nature of the question. If that is the case it is unfortunate that people are unwilling to share their views. Cheers, -- Rob Cookson 3 Hats Design INTERNET PRINT ILLUSTRATION 5201 15 Ave NW Suite 220 Seattle, WA 98107 206.851.8202 direct line 206.784.1641 main office phone 206.784.2231 main office fax mailto:rob_at_3hats.com http://www.3hats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Seng, Dave" wrote: > Why all the talk "under the covers"? I sometimes post directly in > response to a question, but that's invariably because I goofed up and forgot > to reply to the list. Hey - if you have something to share why not share it > with the whole group - if it's worth writing you might as well share it with > the whole group - you might be surprised at what someone else might learn > from your posting - even if you think it's fairly unimportant and innocuous. > > I'm not saying that direct postings are bad - just wondering "stuff" that > could benefit all is being missed. I do some back channel stuff now and then, for four reasons: 1. My remarks are more pungent than I think apropos for sharing with a wide audience. 2. The exchange may injure the ego of the person I am writing to, if he/she realizes "everybody" is reading it. Sort of a variant of 1, although I sometimes use this to "lower the volume" in what seems a too-heated discourse. 3. To take a topic off PW which I think is edging off-topic for PW. 4. Sometimes I just feel like doing that and do not have a good reason. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 4/18/00 7:45:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com writes: << Why all the talk "under the covers"? >> I hadn't realized that this was a problem. But I see that it's good to bring it up. For one thing, many of us have email clients which automatically Reply to the sender, not to the group. So if we're in a hurry and don't manually put in the group's address, "back-channel" stuff happens. Also, I'll bet that there are some of us (like me) who feel pretty intimidated by the nationally-ranked experts on this list. We occasionally feel we have something to say to an individual, but think we might look presumptuous, knowing that there are a couple dozen others who know much more about any given topic than we do. More important to me is that some things need to be said directly to the person who writes. They *are* personal, and don't concern the group. I'll keep on sending some private notes, as well as some notes to the group. Bill Hansen Ithaca NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bhansen97_at_aol.com wrote: > > Also, I'll bet that there are some of us (like me) who feel pretty > intimidated by the nationally-ranked experts on this list. We occasionally > feel we have something to say to an individual, but think we might look > presumptuous, knowing that there are a couple dozen others who know much more > about any given topic than we do. > I feel that generally everybody on the group has had more experience than I have had and it is a good opportunity of getting my opinions critiqued. Sometimes this can make me look pretty dumb, but no dumber than I actually am... -- : : Gabriel L Romeu : http://studiofurniture.com furniture from the workshop : http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR life as a tourist, daily journal : http://users.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> that some posts receive _a lot_ more attention "off-line" than in the public > forum. Maybe this isn't even worth discussing, but my understanding, which > can admittedly be flawed, is that PW was formed for the _sharing_ of > information, knowledge, stories, etc between paddlers from all the > paddlesports (that involve water). > Why all the talk "under the covers"? I sometimes post directly in > response to a question, but that's invariably because I goofed up and forgot > to reply to the list. Hey - if you have something to share why not share it > with the whole group - if it's worth writing you might as well share it with > I hear you and second you Dave. I started, and ran a web forum for musical instrument makers a few years ago (www.mimf.com) and was totally bewilderded at the number of people who would reply to peoples questions and discussions off channel. The reason for the forum was to share, as this one is, and not take it back channel. A part of the reason for this was that I had a pretty formidable rules of 'netiquette" which kept a lot of people from taking a 180 stance from the posters stance. Then again, some people just didn't get it and would post a lot of "me too" responses which just burned up bandwidth and served no purpose. PW's rules are not intimidating at all so I'm amazed that more people don't respond more to the group, and that this is such a well behaved enclave. I don't know to what extent flames and backbiting go on "back channel", but I suspect it is mimimal. This says a lot for the paddling community, Jackie's vision, and this is one of the more civilized places to be on the web where no one has to fear that one of the "big guns" are going to put you down for being a neophyte or sticking your foot in your mouth. I do it all the time, as we all do, and I occasionally hit the wrong send button too...uh, vodka and e-mail don't mix! But, I've received a lot of back channel chat that would have better served on the PW list instead. It's bad form to forward something to the group without having permission, so I've not done that, but a couple of times I've responded to people that maybe the rest of you guys and gals would appreciate the private reply to a post of mine. Lurking is essential for feeling out the psyche of a list for a few months or weeks, but this is such a wonderful community/list that I don't think anyone has anything to fear from sharing. I think it would be a wonderful service to this list if more people would realize that at whatever level we're at now, that the more advanced were there at some point in time too and love to share their experiences without being overbearing or obsequiousness. Nick (who agrees with Dave that lurkers and off channel people should come out of the closet and share with us, at any level) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:12 PM 4/18/00 -0800, Seng, Dave wrote: > > Why all the talk "under the covers"? I sometimes post directly in >response to a question, but that's invariably because I goofed up and forgot >to reply to the list. Hey - if you have something to share why not share it >with the whole group - if it's worth writing you might as well share it with >the whole group - you might be surprised at what someone else might learn >from your posting - even if you think it's fairly unimportant and innocuous. There are times that back channel messages are appropriate. For example, I've been discussing the possibility of a purchase of a new boat with another Paddlewiser, who happens to be a dealer. Some of it is purchase-specific, although the discussion grew out of a post I originally made for all -- but Jackie would have red-flagged the discussion for commericalism a long time ago, too. Besides, it's verging on nobody's business but ours, anyway. I will admit, sometimes back channel messages are screwups, though. I inadvertently sent Ralph a back channel earlier today on the "gun" thread, an off-the-wall reply to his off-the-wall post. When it didn't show up later, I realized I'd hit "Reply" instead of "Reply to All". As it turned out, it wasn't very constructive, and other people said the same thing in a better way, so it's just as well it wasn't sent to everyone. We manage to keep this place pretty personable, partly because we realize that there are times that one-on-one is appropriate, or that some discussions just don't need to involve everybody -- they just cause clutter. But yes, there are times that it would be interesting to everybody if some of the back channel stuff was out in the open. But it's still sender's choice, after all -- with the caveat that replying in the open forum to a private message is considered bad form. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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