Mark asked honestly: <snip> > I was wondering how many people like to carry a gun on trips in wilderness > areas. <snip> Mark, here's a couple of "open-channel" comments. I've spent 20 years paddling remote wilderness, mostly solo, canoe and sea kayak. Yes, there have been nights when bears were messin' about near my tent, such that I wish I had a firearm (or a more tasty paddling partner). But I've never _needed_ one. I've had them come near me while i was in the "back forty" taking a crap - too late to crap my pants, was already doing that. I just kind of said "hi". Now I sing to myself, which would keep anything on this planet away. I practice scrupulously clean camp practices, try to avoid camping or tenting on game trails, and religiously hang my food when in bear country, when they are down out of the mountains (off-season trips, no problemo). For those who sea kayak along coastal routes where bears may inhabit that portion of the wilderness, it is good to realize most bears have their own evening walk-about routes, and a bit of careful observation should show forth were those routes might be in and out of the thick bush. On one trip, a buddy of mine ill-advisedly set up his tent deep in a bay near an obvious game trail. I was cruel, and didn't mention anything. That night, yeap, cccrashhh into the guy lines and tent fly. Lots of yealps and screams from the human, and one jackrabbit bear who fell over a log running away and must have tumbled given the horrendous noise we heard and bark removal witnessed in the morning. Sometimes I can be so cruel, but my buddy deserved it (but not the bear). I've spent some of my best evenings when kayak touring, as the sun went down in camp, watching bears meander up and down the beach, sharing their "space" with me, whilst they turned rocks over looking for yummy treats or sniffing through flotsam and jetsam, nibbling on shreds of kelp. The elegance and power of these animals is so much more intrinsic when observed up close. I've always considered myself a visitor in "their" wilderness, and I am willing to take a chance without a firearm. I do carry two canisters of bear spray, and have contemplated using my 12-gauge flare "handgun". Don't know which device would just piss them off more! Once, with a very interested bruin, I quickly pulled my fleece jacket over my head, arms still in the jacket, to create a more menacing presence. Showed that fellow who was the boss (well, me thinks I was). I have not been around grizz's while kayaking yet, just hiking/logging/hunting. Audrey Sutherland (of Paddling My Own Canoe fame) has spent countless hours in the remote Alaska wilderness, and swears by the "nose swat" methodology of bear repelling. One simply holds their breath, waits for the charge, then calmly clubs the bear on the nose with a big stick. They apparently hate this, and run away like a baby. Randal Washburn has also spent numerous hours in the remote Alaska wilderness (I mention Alaska, as that is probably the ultimate in wilderness and danger). He's a real man, and carries a gun, of course. I seemed to recall from a lecture by him a few years ago, that a shot blast into the air was a very good anti-bear maneuver, but very dependant upon the situation and type of bear. Bear bombs may also work (same caveat). Two top paddlers, two different philosophies. Paul Caffyn also spent some time in Alaska doing some very remote trips. He was very, VERY, freaked out by the brown bears. Can't remember if he took a gun, but I suspect not. On my paddle last year from Bella Bella to Port Hardy (well, didn't make it all the way :-) ), I seriously considered taking a shot gun, but decided against it in the end, applying my previous philosophy, consistently. I also didn't want to kill anyone by accident (as I almost had done to a hunting partner once, when he came up from behind me without warning: missed his gonads by two inches and blew a 4" hole in the ground between his legs). The reason I thought it might be a good idea to have a gun, was I had heard that certain areas we would be paddling through were rife with "coastal fiord bears" just waking up from winter slumber - big heads, skinny bods, and very hungry. The first thing I did when we arrived in Port Hardy was go to the "Gun & Hunting Store", as I figured those guys would have the specialist knowledge -- they did. They said the bears keep back in the bush, away from the beach, munching on skunk cabbage after the ravishes of winter, so no worries. They said that later in the summer, the bears were everywhere, but well feed, and mostly just a nuisance. This was corroborated by the caretaker of a lodge near the Koye River, who stated that during the regular kayaking season, visitors to the inside passage sought shelter in the evening, because as many as 10 bears would roam through their camp at the river side. They were actually not in danger. My point is, local knowledge and a little proactive research about the area one is contemplating paddling in, is not a bad idea. I've spoken to a number of fishermen, who claim the biggest fear on the west coast out our way, could very well be wolves - if one is solo and ill or injured (such as lost your boat on a reef, now bleeding and hurt on an exposed shore in remote wilderness). Best to set up a defensive perimeter, have fire starter for a fire, etc. Check out the movie "The Adventures of Yellow Dog" for some priority west coat of Vancouver Island wild coast and wolf action. On the west coast of Nootka Island a couple of years ago, a fellow Nordkapp kayaker friend of mine was chased back to camp by a family of wolves, during a very early morning stroll out to a reef at low tide. This is an exception I believe - but why didn't that kind of adventure happen to _me_? I could have whipped out my 7 inch SS knife, and had some fun as Rambo, well, maybe another trip. (I consider everything but a gun as a fair, level playing field). Mark, I used to be a hunter. One day I had a big bear in my sights with my Rugger 7MM Magnum, custom bullets. I don't know what happened to me. I just could not pull the trigger. I wanted to, but I couldn't. A week later, I went to the gun store, got rid of it at a 40% loss over retail through the newspaper (did it in haste before I changed my mind) and used the proceeds as a down payment on a brand new sea kayak. That was 20 years ago. I've never looked back. I have nothing against hunting, nor killing with a gun for self defense if you are so inclined. I just can't pull a trigger anymore, except on my camera. I have survived years in remote, dangerous wilderness, using good planning and preparation, heightened awareness that one must actively participate in to utilize, instinct, and intuitive inner instruction to keep myself from harm -- and to keep from harming the creatures for whom I ultimately love and respect, that live there. That is one of the joys of paddling for me. As far as polar bears -- that I'd have to think about - they can hunt for fun, just like humans. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
the guns info is great reading and i appreciate it. like guns, paddling near glaciers seemed to be cut short without discussion of the hazzards or what to beware of advice. what's up with close glacier paddling? or is it simply, don't go there... go paddle tropical warm water. cu, bliven *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Larry, Well, since I think I'm probably the only list member who lives within 3 miles of a glacier I'll take another swing at it: Glacial ice calving is extremely unpredictable and can occur with little or no warning. Paddling in the "drop zone" is very dangerous not necessarily because of a high liklihood of injury, but rather because of the consequences of being dumped on. The same thing goes for the rocks that accompany many glaciers - they fall with NO warning at all - the ice quietly melts until gravity decides to take its turn. The waves that can be generated by falling ice can be quite large and violent - and a capsize is invariably going to be into some of the coldest water that can be paddled. If there are icefloes, bergy bits, etc in the water the waves, wind, and tide can conspire to put the squeeze on your kayak. Floating bergs can be dangerous if they roll and the unsuspecting paddler is too close - and it's nearly impossible to tell how large or what shape they are underwater. I look at glacier paddling like anything else - assess the risks, understand the consequences, balance your skills and knowledge to the situation, and then go have fun. Glaciers are really best observed from a distance anyway - they're so big that the best views are usually from at least several hundred yards away - often even much further. Local knowledge of weather patterns and their effects on glacial activity can be helpful, but I don't think that anyone can accurately predict when a particlar portion of a glacier will fall. For what it's worth, the Mendenhall Glacier here in Juneau is really a pretty slow moving glacier and doesn't tend to have a lot of the dramatic icefalls that many other nearby glaciers often exhibit. There's NO way you'd ever find me within much less than 800 yds from the Sawyer Glacier in Tracy Arm! (approx 40 miles southeast of Juneau) Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Bliven [mailto:foxhill_at_shore.intercom.net] > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 1:42 AM > > the guns info is great reading and i appreciate it. > > like guns, paddling near glaciers seemed to be cut short > without discussion > of the hazzards or what to beware of advice. > > what's up with close glacier paddling? > or > is it simply, don't go there... > go paddle tropical warm water. > > cu, > bliven *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:12 PDT