BaysideBob wrote: >I'd opt for pepper spray. Not CS or CN (tear gas), it has no effect on most >animals. Look for the OC in the strongest solution you can get. My >employer issues me 10%, but the strongest civilians can get in my state is >5%. It works on just about all mammals, although I've had it fail on a few >humans, and you won't get the Fish&Game folks trying to hang you out to dry >like they will for dispatching the wrong critter. An interesting note on relative danger: Here in Montana, we can buy OC labeled "Bear Spray" which is 5% oleoresin capsicum. You can also buy cans of OC for stopping assaults/rapists/jetskiers (just kidding!). Its OC strength? 10%. Seems like you'd need stronger OC to stop a 150-lb thug than a 600-lb sow, but the product developers would have us think otherwise. Even more interesting is that the 10% OC sells for about $20, where the 5% OC bear spray retails for nearly $40! Shawn -- Shawn W. Baker 0 46°53'N © 2000 ____©/______ 114°06'W ~~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ baker_at_montana.com 0 http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
BaysideBob wrote: >I'd opt for pepper spray. Not CS or CN (tear gas), it has no effect on most >animals. Look for the OC in the strongest solution you can get. My >employer issues me 10%, but the strongest civilians can get in my state is >5%. It works on just about all mammals, although I've had it fail on a few >humans, and you won't get the Fish&Game folks trying to hang you out to dry >like they will for dispatching the wrong critter. Shawn said... |An interesting note on relative danger: Here in Montana, we can buy OC |labeled "Bear Spray" which is 5% oleoresin capsicum. You can also buy |cans of OC for stopping assaults/rapists/jetskiers (just kidding!). Its |OC strength? 10%. |Seems like you'd need stronger OC to stop a 150-lb thug than a 600-lb |sow, but the product developers would have us think otherwise. Even |more interesting is that the 10% OC sells for about $20, where the 5% OC |bear spray retails for nearly $40! I don't think the concentration matters for the 150 pound thug or the bear. Supposedly the percentage of OC in the spray is not really relevant above 5-6%. The extra OC just adds to the LENGTH of time the spray will be effective. The EFFECTS of a 5.5% OC and 10% OC are the same. 10% will just last longer. I don't know how long 10% will be effective. But when I was spray with 5.5% OC I REALLY, DESIRED, WANTED, and WISHED to keep my eyes closed for 45 minutes. Opening my eyes was just not something I ever wanted to do again. 8-) 45 minutes is long enough for you to get control of the sprayee or run away. Take your pick depending on the demands of the situation.... What is VERY important in a spray is the carrier. Is it water or alcohol? OC is an oil. I know I don't want to have to shake a can of OC to mix up the contents before spraying! 8-) The problem with alcohol is that it burns. NYPD is supposed to have really dosed a very violent subject in a bathroom with multiple OC grenades and the suspect still would not come out. They then tossed in a flash bang to stun him before entry to get him out. Since the man was soaked in OC and its carrier, alcohol, they ended up with a cooked and dead suspect. Thus the reason for water based carriers. So know what the base is. Otherwise you just might be giving the bear/badguy a nice little spritz of flavored water before they eat you..... 8-) The real problem with OC is for it to be really effective you have to paint the sprayee's face with it. That is kinda tough to do. You can have a long spray to reach out and touch someone/bear or a fog. The spray is going to be harder to hit with since you have a relatively small stream trying to hit a moving target. The sprayer might be moving as well. Makes things interesting. Add some wind to the equation and things are really interesting. OC with a fog type of spray is easier to "apply" but then you have to be close. Very close. 3-5 feet close. That is very close to our 150 pound thug. Our 600 pound bear might have a front leg that can reach out and touch you at that range. My two cents is that fog is the best compromise with two legged critters. I think most bear sprays are stream based. Another problem with OC is that the user is very likely to get a doze as well. Especially with the fog spray. Also remember the someone/bear hit with OC may or may not stop attacking. Some people just keep going after having cans of OC emptied on them. They deal with the effects. They might not be able to see, their face feels like it is on fire, and they might not be able to breath real easy but they can still attack. I know of people who just are not affected by CS/CN. Don't understand why but they are not.... OC is a good tool. But just know its limitations. Hope this helps.... Dan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:35 AM 4/19/00 -0600, Shawn W. Baker wrote: > >Seems like you'd need stronger OC to stop a 150-lb thug than a 600-lb >sow, but the product developers would have us think otherwise. Even >more interesting is that the 10% OC sells for about $20, where the 5% OC >bear spray retails for nearly $40! That isn't product development, that's marketing. There's a difference! (He said cynically) . . . -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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