Dave Kruger wrote: > MSN/RiDem wrote: > > > > I carry a 30.06 on multi-week canoe trips on the Barrenground in > > Canada...for grizzly. > > A very thoughtful, practical answer, Rich. > > I'm curious, though. Will a 30.06 stop a grizzly quickly? What sort of shot > do you need? A head shot? I've been promising myself to stay out of this discussion, but... Time for the obligatory reference to Steven Herrero's "Bear Attacks, Their Causes and Avoidance" (ISBN 0-88830-279-7), the standard reference on bear behavior as it pertains to interactions with humans. Herrero is a researcher in Western Canada with considerable knowledge about bears. The quick answer - the shoulders. You can't hit the head - you don't have the time/accuracy/nerve/whatever to be that selective. The bear charges head down and basically you have no other choice. If you hit the shoulder with a serious calibre bullet, it will do enough damage to slow the bear down and hopefully stop him. Then you might get a second shot away and finish the job. However, bears have been known to continue charging on three legs and kill the "marksmen". Realistically, you are unlikely to have much of a chance to shoot anyway. By the time you are aware of a bear in the bear's normal habitat (hint - not wide open fields), he'll be within a few yards of you moving at twenty or thirty miles an hour in a sprint. I'd like to see you get a shot off before you're hit! However, let's look at the situation. The bear is most likely to run away. You're lucky if you even see a bear. Bears are quite common in Algonquin Provincial Park, yet I've never seen a bear there (five people have been killed there in the last two decades, in two attacks by predatory bears - rare behavior). In fact, I've only seen one bear in Ontario - last fall outside Killbear Provincial Park on a kayaking weekend. Most of the bears I've seen have been in BC or NWT. In Jasper National Park ten years ago, I was hiking on a trail alone. I came to an area with considerable windfall. The trees' root balls were filled with light brown dirt and most of the trees fell away from the trail. I saw, out of the corner of my eye, a root ball that had a large black patch. As I got within about thirty feet of it, I realized the black thing was moving. I stopped and looked. It turned and looked at me. I stiffened and let out a grunt of surprise. He stiffened and let out a grunt of surprise. Before I could think "A bear - now what?" he was off and out of sight. Within a few seconds, the only sound was my pounding heart. Their instinct is to get out of sight of man. They are more afraid of you than you are of them. If they do charge, they are most likely to make a bluff charge. They will stop short and stomp and snort. They are trying to intimidate you. They will. Your survival depends on not over reacting. The bluff charge may include a head butt, or a swipe, either of which will likely hurt. You have to stand your ground, and back off, raising your arms to appear bigger, and talk in a low voice using soothing sounds. If you back away slowly far enough, he'll back off and go away or let you wander away. He doesn't want a confrontation; he wants you out of _his_ territory. This doesn't apply to polar bears -they aren't afraid of humans and are predatory by nature. Polar bear territory is the only place where I would want one of my party to have a rifle. A guide I paddled with told me of the time he led a trip through polar bear territory. His company had hired an Inuit hunter as riflemen; his sole purpose was to protect the white guys from the white bears. When they arrived, he announced he'd changed his mind and wasn't going. They continued without him (after much protest that he didn't quite see the point of) and saw only one polar bear. Nothing happened. A recent trans-polar expedition also encountered polar bears without incident (other than the claw marks in their sled covers). In Nahanni National Park, I saw lots of evidence of bears (scat, broken logs that were foraged for bugs, dug-up anthills etc) and saw four or five, including a sow and cub (all black - no grizzlies :-( ). They ignored us as we paddled by! Not once was our campsite (a different one every night) invaded by a bear. There was a problem bear near Oxbow Lake but it ignored us (though we found out later it harrassed the inhabitants the nights before and after - no damage done). The guides we were with carried bear banger flares and pepper spray. They used only one bear banger the whole trip - to wake me up on a particularly lazy morning. They fired it over my tent. I heard it, assumed it was a Dene or Deh Cho hunter after the buffalo we saw the night before (_on_ our campsite), rolled over and went back to sleep. When you have twenty hours of daylight and four hours of twilight, it's hard to know when morning comes (my watch had broken). Sharks, statistically, are more of a risk that bears, yet I wouldn't think of scuba diving with a spear! Why should I carry a gun for a bear? I'm a visitor in their terrain. I have to be polite, respect their wishes to live and let live, and be on my way. _Most_ of my paddling, canoe or kayak, is in bear country. I camp out dozens of nights every year in bear territory. Never carried a gun; never will. There is just no need. I don't even have bear spray! I keep intending to buy some, but never get around to it. I was looking at bear bangers the other day thinking, maybe it's time... WRT Moose! I would no more carry a gun to defend myself against a moose than carry one to defend myself against a squirrel! I've seen lots of moose while paddling, mostly in Algonquin, and they are more like cows than bulls. Even the bulls. Pretty docile. Leave them alone and watch from a distance. If you are in a position to threaten them to the point that they charge _you_ are in the wrong place. If you see them , they are likely in a swampy area feeding. Keep paddling in the clear water and enjoy the experience. I've never come across a moose on a portage or hiking trail (though I once saw fresh tracks on a cross country ski trail - again in Algonquin). If hiking, keep your eyes open and watch. If you see a moose, consider yourself lucky. Don't shoot unless you intend to carry out and consume almost 100% of the dead animal. Anything else is extremely immoral. If it's not hunting season or you're without a license, I hope you're caught. I will never begrudge the First Nations people their right to traditional ways. The white man can get his meat in a store from animals bred for slaughter. I see no sense in killing innocent wildlife just for fun. I've eaten venison and know how good it is, but I'd rather see it running through the woods. Mike (getting off his soapbox now...) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael Daly wrote: --snip-- > WRT Moose! --snip-- Quetico. Bull in heat. Ed Snucin's brother. Canoe eventually outdistances moose. Chastity preserved. ______________________________________________________________________ Richard Culpeper E-mail: culpeper_at_tbaytel.net Website: http://www.tbaytel.net/culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return." -- Kimosippi '95 -- ______________________________________________________________________ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What's a bear banger?? Robert Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_home.com> wrote: > Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:58:43 -0400 > To: "paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net" <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Guns? When and Where? (long) > > They used only one bear banger the whole trip - to wake me up on a > particularly lazy morning.... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Robert C. Cline" wrote: > What's a bear banger?? > A small aerial flare that goes BANG at the end of its flight. They are launched from a pencil launcher (small pencil-sized tube with a firing pin on a spring). They are vaguely similar to the pistol type flares that some use, with the addition of the bang. You aim it low so that it fires between you and the bear. The bear will hopefully be frightened off. Don't fire it behind the bear or he'll come your way! They're not too expensive, about C$40 locally (US$25). That's a launcher and three flares. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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