This may be old news and excuse me if it is since I'm new to this mailing list but recently while searching on Folbot I came across the Folbot Canadian page at www.icondata.com/stores/folbot/ which has since been removed, although is is cached at http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.icondata.com/stores/folbot/ saying: "We regret to advise that Folbot (USA) Inc. has decided to cease marketing Folbot in Canada. We are uncertain if this was a decision wholly made in the USA, or, by it's parent company Folbot Japan (wholly owned by Marunishi)" I thought they were a wholly owned American company? It goes on to say "Warranty problems (*in particular failed rivets/frames/washboards) must be dealt with by Folbot USA as well." Are they implying that they have had problems with these? Thoughts? Comments? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paul Raymond wrote: > > This may be old news and excuse me if it is since I'm new to this mailing > list but recently while searching on Folbot I came across the Folbot > Canadian page at [deleted] [where he found some disparaging remarks about Folbot products; snip] > Thoughts? Comments? This spurious information was reported on the Folbot WebBoard, and countered by Phil Cotton, owner of Folbot USA. It appears there was an unhappy separation between Folbot Canada and Folbot USA. The most logical explanation for the bad information is that someone who has it in for Folbot USA has left that rubbish hanging around for the unsuspecting to find. There is a Folbot Japan, but it is just Folbot USA's outlet in Japan, not the parent of Folbot USA. IIRC, this is what happened: Folbot had a batch of rivets some two plus years ago which were less resistant to corrosion than their usual lot. Some were installed in boats (Greenland II and Aleut, IIRC), and a few failed. Folbot immediately sent replacement rivets and instructions for replacement to those who requested them, per Folbot's usual policy. I have a 1996 vintage Greenland II, which has spent a lot of time on salt water, including a handful of two-week-long trips. There is NO sign of rivet failure, after four seasons of use. That seems to be the norm. If you want to explore Folbot Forum, a WebBoard on which anybody with a valid email address can comment and contribute, hit their Web site(http://www.folbot.com/). Do a search on any aspect of Folbots you want, and you should turn up extensive, **uncensored** dialog. You will find praise and complaints, picks and pans. It is an honest, open forum, to which the owner of Folbot has made (maybe) two contributions over the last three years. One was to respond to the rubbish Paul found. I'll speak up for Folbot USA's integrity and to their commitment to service and support of their boats -- they have served me well, and have been more than generous with assistance on improvements I have made on my G II. In my book, they are a great company -- and Phil Cotton is a class act. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks Dave, for clearing this up, I had only ever read anything good about Folbot and this just didn't seem right. I apologize to anyone I've offended for falling for this. Paul. >From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> >To: PaddleWise <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> >Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Folbot Japanese Owned? >Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 18:14:26 -0700 > >Paul Raymond wrote: > > > > This may be old news and excuse me if it is since I'm new to this >mailing > > list but recently while searching on Folbot I came across the Folbot > > Canadian page at [deleted] >[where he found some disparaging remarks about Folbot products; snip] > > > Thoughts? Comments? > >This spurious information was reported on the Folbot WebBoard, and >countered by >Phil Cotton, owner of Folbot USA. It appears there was an unhappy >separation >between Folbot Canada and Folbot USA. The most logical explanation for the >bad >information is that someone who has it in for Folbot USA has left that >rubbish >hanging around for the unsuspecting to find. There is a Folbot Japan, but >it >is just Folbot USA's outlet in Japan, not the parent of Folbot USA. > >IIRC, this is what happened: Folbot had a batch of rivets some two plus >years >ago which were less resistant to corrosion than their usual lot. Some were >installed in boats (Greenland II and Aleut, IIRC), and a few failed. >Folbot >immediately sent replacement rivets and instructions for replacement to >those >who requested them, per Folbot's usual policy. > >I have a 1996 vintage Greenland II, which has spent a lot of time on salt >water, including a handful of two-week-long trips. There is NO sign of >rivet >failure, after four seasons of use. That seems to be the norm. > >If you want to explore Folbot Forum, a WebBoard on which anybody with a >valid >email address can comment and contribute, hit their Web >site(http://www.folbot.com/). > >Do a search on any aspect of Folbots you want, and you should turn up >extensive, **uncensored** dialog. You will find praise and complaints, >picks >and pans. It is an honest, open forum, to which the owner of Folbot has >made >(maybe) two contributions over the last three years. One was to respond to >the >rubbish Paul found. > >I'll speak up for Folbot USA's integrity and to their commitment to service >and >support of their boats -- they have served me well, and have been more than >generous with assistance on improvements I have made on my G II. In my >book, >they are a great company -- and Phil Cotton is a class act. > >-- >Dave Kruger >Astoria, OR >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and >not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > > I'll speak up for Folbot USA's integrity and to their commitment to service and > support of their boats -- they have served me well, and have been more than > generous with assistance on improvements I have made on my G II. In my book, > they are a great company -- and Phil Cotton is a class act. I second what Dave Kruger says about the company and Phil. The products are solid and the company has a well deserved reputation for customer service and followup. Like any company, they do get bad batches of components and when they catch it they make good on them. In case you might think this is an exclusive Folbot problem, I can tell you tales and tales about Feathercraft, Klepper, Nautiraid et al. From time to time, they all have had problems. The funniest happened to me well before I got seriously involved in folding kayaks. I had bought my first boat, a Klepper double without a rudder. The seller would not allow me to buy a rudder until I used the boat a sufficient amount of time without one. I was going on a camping trip and rushed by the shop, hoping by then he would finally sell me one. He asked me a few questions (I don't think there were any essay questions) then at last gave me his blessing. I wrote out my check, grabbed the rudder assembly and drove off. I didn't paddle to the site but rather took a ferry. The next day when I went to make the boat and attach the rudder, the rudder pin would not fit in the bracket hole. Try as I could, it wouldn't. Rather than try to sand it down, I sat a moment and thought...what could I use to replace the pin? It hit me at once. I was camping; what do you have when camping? tent stakes. We had several tents in the group and a stake from one of them was slim enough to do the job and we were able to paddle the rest of the weekend. The next weekday, I went in with the skin of my boat and the rudder. The fellow in the shop (I am avoiding a well known name) could see that the pin would not fit my boat. He went around to every other display model, about four of them. At each one, the pin would not fit and he would say "Ya", then on to the next one. Finally, he said this was an absolute first ever in all his days with Klepper and, crestfallen, gave me a replacement pin. A few days later I was in the shop and talking to one young guy who was working their part time. He said "Oh, yeah, we got a whole batch of them. They were too heavily anondized or something." To this day I think the old fox knew this all along and was just making a show for me! :-) ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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