[Paddlewise] [long] Brit. vs. Am. yaks -- Q & A

Hi Josh (& list),

Though I refuse to re-open the Brit. vs. Am. yaks, skeg vs. rudder, and
a few other debates which get regurgitated about every other day here, I
will take on the tippy vs. stable argument, plus a few other
knickknacks.  The comments follow what you wrote.  (And Jackie, if
you're reading; I'm going to include Josh's post because I do believe it
is important for the other readers to understand where he's coming from,
his background and skill level)

Joshua Teitelbaum wrote:
> 
> Dear Friends:
> 
> As my kayaking abilities have improved (I only started in November), I have
> begun to think about buying a boat.  I am learning about design and reading
> a lot, particularly on Paddlewise.  My ONLY experience has been in the NDK
> Romany Explorer 18 (I hope to paddle many other boats this summer when I
> will be on the US West Coast).  People who paddle these and other British
> boats are extremely chauvinistic about them; they are characterized as
> high-end, high-performance, the most durable, the most seaworthy, and the
> only boats worthy of the accomplished paddler.  They do not use rudders; a
> skeg maybe.

Correction, Josh.  PWer Doug Lloyd uses a rudder on his Nordcapp, along
with a couple / few(?) other PWers with Brit boats.

> My club, in planning a trip to Alaska, will only use British
> boats.  Many things have been nagging at me regarding these boats.
> 
> It is my understanding (I do this with the utmost humility in this forum,
> please...), that these boats tend to be sportier; by this I mean that they
> are:
>     Narrow (& tippy), relatively fast, good tracking (slow to turn) low
> volume (less windage/less cargo), snug-fitting (more control/less
> comfortable) & extremely durable (& heavy) all of which adds up to an
> extremely seaworthy craft that requires effort and skill to pilot and enjoy.
> 
> While American boats tend to be:
>     Wide (& stable), slower, maneuverable (poor tracking) higher volume (more
> cargo/more windage, loose fitting (more comfortable/less control) & light
> (but somewhat fragile) all of which adds up to a very comfortable craft for
> gentle waters that requires little skill to pilot and none to enjoy.
> 
> (The above characterizations are those of a Paddlewiser who back channeled
> me a while ago -- he remains anonymous since I have not asked his
> permission to post his comments.).
> 
> In looking on the WWW for places to rent kayaks, I have seen that most
> places really require very little in the way of proof of skills from
> clients.  There are places that offer tours in kayaks with no experience at
> all.  Now, in the NDK boat I have learned on, I would NEVER send someone
> out except on the most placid of lakes.  I would not put them on the sea.
> But could it be possible that (some?) American kayaks (I'm talking about
> singles) are SO stable that one could send someone out in the chop with no
> problem?
> 
> Now, IF this is true, that American kayaks are more stable, WHO NEEDS
> BRITISH KAYAKS?  If we are so concerned with safety, why have a tippy boat
> at all?
> 
> I THINK I know the answer to this:  is it that the skilled paddler will
> enjoy a "sportier" boat more because it is simply more fun (and not really
> less safe in the hands of a skilled paddler)?  Is the following analogy
> correct:  A skilled driver would much rather drive a Porsche than Mack
> truck, although the truck is certainly better in an accident and more
> stable on the road?

Let me begin by redefining "Brit" boats as tippier boats (whether they
come from Europe or N. Am.) and "American" boats as stable boats (same
goes).

Next, let me strip the two independent concepts of "sporty" from tippy.
Is a tippy round bottom flat water racing shell (at 19'6"Lx14"B-at
waterline) considered sporty?  Other than going faster than stink in a
straight line, "No", it is not sporty.  Sporty includes a "fun" amount
of maneuverability.  Is a planing hull WW boat sporty (at 7'Lx26"B)? 
You bet ya, it is!  But it's nowhere near tippy on flat water!  So let's
drop "sporty" and just talk tippy.

Bear with me as I recount my own beginnings in sea kayaking as I believe
it will
a) provide an answer to your question about the questionable need for
tippy boats, and b) will give you the experience which you missed by
learning in a tippy boat, albeit 2nd hand.

My first kayak, bought about 8~9 years ago was a Necky Skeena.  At
16'Lx24"B with semi hard chines, it had what would pass today as
moderate to high stability.  It was a stable enough boat that I often
used it to fish from.  With most of it's flat hull zone right under the
seat and narrow enough hull contours leading up to it, it was fairly
fast and sprinted well.  Coupled with fairly low windage (when the
rudder was down), it made the boat fun for flatter water.  The boat was
easy enough to set on edge to really carve the turns, though offered
enough resistance that this did tend to wear me down by the end of a 20
mile paddle.
The biggest problem with that stable boat was that as a fledgling sea
kayaker, I was beginning to find myself in bigger, more exposed waters
more often and that wide flat hull area under seat would force the
Skeena to ride up the face of beam seas at the same angle as the waves. 
Sure, I could edge the boat into the waves, but I had to force it which
proved tiring over just a few miles in beam seas.
Looking around at new boats, trying out friends', etc., I found that
those tippy, round hull boats did not ride up the face of (beam) waves
like this.  In fact, the narrower, rounder, and lower volume the hull,
the less apt the yak was to follow the wave's contour in beam seas.  The
on the water feeling of this came (almost) closing my eyes paddling a
beam sea and knowing that the wave passed under NOT by feeling the hull
roll up as the boat rode up the wave, but instead, by feeling one hand
dip deep on a stroke, the other side nearly catching air...a brief
teeter and reactive mini brace over the crest...followed by the opposite
hand burying deep on the stroke as I drifted down the other side of the
wave.  That tippy boat handled beam sea waves about as gracefully as a
fish.

So; with tried & true sea kayak designs, figure that:
The more stable a boat is on flat water, the tippier it will get in beam
seas.
And vice versa.
The tippier the boat is on flat water, the less affected it will be by
beam seas.

"WHO NEEDS BRITISH KAYAKS?
If we are so concerned with safety, why have a tippy boat at all?"

The kayaker who finds him or herself in rougher water at some point,
will benefit from a tippy boat in those conditions.  Given good enough
skills to handle the tippy boat's instability, coupled with the tippy
boat's narrow beam, the tippy boat paddler will benefit on flat water,
too.

> Please excuse any crass generalizations about British vs. American; it may
> be that many American boats have these "British" characteristics.  If so,
> I'd appreciate a list of which boats do.

Eddyline Falcon (from what I understand - haven't paddled, yet)
Necky Arluk II, Looksha II & III (Canadian)
Mariner (check w/ Matt or website for models)
a few others which aren't coming to me right now, which could be Brit.
Heavy Duty equivalents in various aspects.  All of the above are hard
shell kayaks which can be seriously knocked around and will stand up to
the abuse.

> Question:
> 
> I have seen boats described as having a "hard chine."  Can someone define
> this for me? Is it that the hull and the deck meet at a sharp angle,
> instead of a rounded corner, and that a hard chine, as opposed to a soft
> chine, refers to how sharp this angle is?

No, that's the boat's gunale (some PWer correct my spelling, please, and
I sincerely promise to enter it correctly into spell-check).

If you flip the boat upside down and look at the hull shape only, best
seen from the bow or stern, it will appear roundish / semi flattened
through the seat area on the Romany.  Or it will appear be sharp edged
where the sides of the hull meet the bottom of the hull on the (Brit.)
Anas Acuta.  Those side to bottom edges or corners are the chines.  The
sharper, more pronounced those corners are, the harder the chines.  The
rounder or lacking those corners are, the softer the chines.

> Secondly, does a hard chine
> give greater secondary stability, allowing for easier leans?

Yes, hard chines provide "training wheels" at a stop, a small flat area
under each cheek of the seat to lean onto for initial stability, as well
as a "wall" to lean on when the yak is tipped way over, the secondary
stability being about maxed out when the chine to gunale plane matches
the plane of the water surface.

Hard chines do not allow for easier OR tougher leaning, though.
That is determined by the amount and distribution of volume out to the
sides, below the boats bow to stern spin axis.
Once again looking down the boat's inverted hull, draw an imaginary hull
shape line around the (hard or soft chined) hull which balances the
volume lost by knocking off the corners (chines) with the volume gained
by running over the flatter hull planes.
Now study that shape which you've drawn.  The narrower it is at the
bottom of the hull, the easier the boat will lean or edge (= tippier). 
The wider it is at the bottom of the hull, the tougher it will be to
edge or lean (= more stable).
Put into practice, Maligiaq Padilla's Greenland boat (with its butt
cheek vise hull profile) is a tippier, easier to edge and lean boat than
my friend's planing pancake hull profile WW playboat.

> Finally, is chine pronounced (in English) as it would be in French (e.g.,
> "sheen"), or is it pronounced like Chin[a]?

Speaking for only the American-English speaking community, the "i" is
long as in China.

> Josh in Israel
> (who has his first rolling clinic tomorrow, and is hopeful that he will be
> able to, but trying to be disappointed if he can't)

Best of luck and remember to _r_e_l_a_x_.
Neck like a noodle, Josh, neck like a noodle.

Vince
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