RE: [Paddlewise] A Can of Worms: why tippy -> seaworthy.

Hi Nick, Jed and all,


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Nick Schade
>
>
> At 8:44 AM -0700 5/14/00, Rob Cookson wrote:
> >Could someone please explain to me why tippy boats are more seaworthy.  I
> >hear this a lot.  Thanks.

My question was a bit of a troll and for that I apologize.  I do appreciate
the responses I received.    I often hear mystical qualities attached to
boats or paddles of different shapes and sizes or national origin without a
whole bunch of reasoning.  Often boats reach cult status in certain regions
and to paddle something other than the cult boat of choice is to suffer
constant shame and ridicule (mostly light hearted).  The attitude "real men
paddle brand x" becomes tiring after a while.

I'm not in any way against tippy boats.  I have an old Dawn Treader that I
would consider fairly tippy and have spent quit a lot of time in various
Nordkapps.  I really enjoy paddling tippy boats and I totally agree that
they are easier to put on edge.  However, if you were going to toss me out
into a hurricane and tell me to survive, I would choose a boat that had a
little more stability (and was much shorter and had some rocker) like a
whitewater boat.

<SNIP>

> This being the case, "normal" waves don't do much to tip you regardless of
> the width of the boat. What generally tips people over in normal waves is
> their reaction to them, not the boat's.
>
> When the stability starts to make a difference is when the waves are
> breaking. In this case the top of the wave breaks free and slides down the
> face. If the kayak also breaks free and slides down the face, trouble can
> start. The force of the water moving sideways past the bottom of the boat
> adds rotational forces to the mix. These rotational are best overcome by
> leaning the boat towards the on coming waves. This is easier to do with a
> less stable boat. Being able to lean the boat aggressively also lets the
> paddler place a brace into the more solid water above/beyond the break.

As long as the paddler can lean the boat it is tippy enough.  It doesn't
take a very big lean to prevent capsize.


>
> I suspect it is the greater ease of the paddler to perform an aggressive
> brace that improves the apparent seaworthiness of the less stable boat.
> With an unskilled paddler, the more stable boat is probably more
> seaworthy.

Yes and this is my point, and it is one of my pet peeves.


> So I think it is not the tippy boat that is more seaworthy, but the tippy
> boat with a skilled paddler.
>

Yes, I agree.  I also think the same skilled paddler would keep the stable
boat upright as well.  One thing that I believe is easy to loose track of is
that most of us don't spend all of our time paddling in gale force
conditions and our boats should reflect a compromise design features that
reflect the way a boat will be used.

My experience has been that as long as the kayak is matched to the paddler's
size so the paddler can lean the kayak the stable boat will stay upright
just fine in rough conditions.  Never have I seen a single example where an
expert in a stable kayak capsized before an expert in a tippy kayak.  My
experience has been that both experts will stay upright until the point of
exhaustion or the point of being caught off guard and then capsize. The
tippy boat is easier to roll as a recovery but most stable boats can be
rolled too.

On the other hand if you put an intermediate paddler in a tippy boat and an
intermediate paddler in a stable boat and then increase the severity of the
conditions the stable boat is upright longer.  At least that has been my
experience.

I would say that tippy boats are often easier to roll but I think that a lot
of novices get sucked into some mythical belief that a skinny tippy boat
will magically become stable in rough water.


I've seen a lot of paddlers in a variety of conditions in a variety of boats
and I have to say that it is usually the skinny ones that I see upside down.



Cheers,

Rob Cookson



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