Re: [Paddlewise] Paul Caffyn and rudders

Jerry "Gerald Foodman" posted recently:

<Matt wrote:
> I'm surprised by your experience with
>the Caribou in following seas. Usually hard chine boats that respond
well
to
>a lean turn like the Caribou does do well there. Maybe its that old
>proactive/reactive preference of yours, or maybe I should try it out
for
>myself in following seas (or at least a steep boatwake) instead of
believing
>the ravings and first impressions of blind men.
>

It should be noted that the CD Caribou was originally designed and then
sold for a while with no skeg option, but eventually became available
with a skeg due to customer pressure, from what I have been told from
seeing-eye humans :-). When the Caribou first came out, I knew it would
be just a matter of time before the skeg became an available reality.
The enjoyment for me was seeing how long the designer could "hold-out"
on his explanation that his "baby" didn't need one. At least market
pressure brings necessary "evolution". BTW, many of the serious CD fans
in Victoria are paddling the new and improved Gulfstream with the lower
aft deck and leak proof skeg housing with improved skeg slider. If I was
going to consider a wider boat than what I now currently paddle, I would
seriously consider the Gulfstream (in british racing green), but not
before test paddling some of the Mariner kayaks first, as I really would
like to not have to rely on a rudder or skeg, which I've seen break-down
or fail in the field far too often. Rudders are also not aesthetically
pleasing to look at, except on a folder.

<snip>
 Matt wrote:
>I forgot you had paddled the Mariner II. Essentially Doug is repeating
what
>he interpreted one blind man to have said. I'm surprised that you think

>there is much to learn about the Elephant from heresay once removed
from a
>blind man.

The blind man was a long-time Mariner paddler, hardly blind, unless only
a short-sighted person would buy one <g>. And hardly blind if he was
able to see certain design characteristics that eventually did not suit
him. The Mariner II was obviously a redesign, or am I wrong? If 90% of
what I posted regarding the paddler's comments about the Mariner One
were verbatim, is that so excessively removed? I would personally love
to here from some other independent sources what the Mariner II is like
for exposed coast paddling. Back-channel is fine. (Sub-context: I would
like to try one out, but do not wish to drive down to Seattle if it
isn't worth the effort, though I do feel a moral obligation to try one
out at some point this next winter season).

Matt wrote:
>Since you paddled the Mariner II and have read what others have written

>about the Nordkapp why did you need to ask the question of Doug that
started
>this thread.

Jerry said:
>>I did not need to ask the question.  But look at all the fascinating
discussion it has prompted.  I just received detailed opinions on my
favorite topic from two of my favorite commentators.  You and Doug.<<

Just to set the record straight, for me anyway, Matt, along with Nick
and John, are my favorite commentators. Also, I'm not much of a hero
worshipper, except maybe  for Tom -- given his determined progress as he
struggles to regain higher functionality in his life. I do respect
highly the other three names, especially Matt. Anything I say about Matt
is meant to be light-hearted and cordial. Matt and I have been bantering
back and forth for years. I used to say stuff like, "you need a good
thick hull to seal-land". He would write back in our old ocean  kayaking
newsletter that he has been up and down the coast of Vancouver Island,
and has never seen one rock you could land on properly. I would then
pipe up and say that is how I regularly land out there during adventure
paddles (my recollection of what was said, only). I've always enjoyed
the dialogue. Matt is also a true pariah to the power brokers of the
paddle sports industry, refusing to be one of their pawns, and for this
I hold him in the utmost regard.

I'm also fascinated by Jerry's quest for the perfect boat, or at least
his meanderings along that pathway. And while I appreciate Matt's
technical prowess and attendant knowledge base, I know little of, and
could care less about, sweet science; rather, I simply want a sweet, sea
kindly ride from my sweet sea-chariot. I realize it takes lots of
tweaking with prismatic coefficients and all the other nautical nuances
to bring about that end and/or improve upon the status quo to go on and
find better working compromises. That is why I will always listen with
interest and take note of kayak designers, no matter how pathologically
obsessed or infamously verbose they might happen to be over
technicalities :-).

Good luck, Jerry. Paddle on people!

BC'in Ya
Doug Lloyd
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