RE: [Paddlewise] Slightly Leaky At The Neck

Hi Tom and All,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Tom
>
> Thu, 25 May Rob Cookson wrote: RE: Dry Tops and Bibs vs Dry
> Suits:  Kokotat--Original Message-----On Behalf Of ralph diaz:
> Thursday, May 25: To: Fred T, CA Kayaker, Subject (Re): Same
> "">R. Diaz:"On another note, I believe the TecTour top does not
> have a latex gasket at the neck, just the wrists."You are
> correct, the tec-tour has latex at the wrists but not at the
> neck.  During a roll with this type of closure I find I get maybe
> a cup or two of water in at most.  Definately not enough to make
> safety an issue....."
>
> While this may not be a major safety issue,  I would recomend
> thought be given to it in the overall context of the paddling
> situation with consideration given to the worst possible
> conditions that may develop therein.

Though I agree with you that one needs to constantly be considering "what
if" scenarios I don't think "worst case" scenario planning is needed to make
prudent judgments.  You rarely win in worst case situations.  I'm splitting
hairs here but I think that it is important to distinguish between likely
mishaps and impending doom.  I'm not going to give up sleeping on the beach
out of fear of tidal waves.  Nor will I put my lunch in a bear cannister for
a walk in the local park.

In my car I always wear a seatbelt but I never wear a fire suit or crash
helmet; they would both likely be assets in worst case scenarios.  I put on
my safety belt and drive prudently.  I'm comfortable with the risk level
present, even though I could further reduce it by adding a roll cage and
multi point harness.

I can also reduce risk by avoiding roads with higher rated of accident
occurrence, and avoid peak travel times, this reduces risk without
additional equipment.

Watch out Jed, here comes that broken record.  It is important that each
individual access the risks at hand and take whatever precautions they feel
necessary to be comfortable with situation. Risk management should allow
lots of individual room for choice.

My main concern with the post was that it appeared as though Ralph was
basing his assessment on speculation.  What I would like to know is in what
conditions he has seen bibs fail to the point of being dangerous.
Speculation is fine but it should be labeled as such.  I know Ralph has a
big weekend but hopefully next week when things have settled down he will
address this.

Note that many kayaking
> "accidents" have been attributed to a melange of  individually
> non-catastrouphic causes which in combination contributed to a
> disasterous result.

Absolutely.  Several small problems combined can lead to disaster.  Infact I
think this is usually the case in accidents, several poor choices have been
made that lead to trouble.  However, I don't see how this relates
specifically to bibs.  Yes, water could enter through the folds.  But the
same problems exist with a drysuit, blow out a gasket or tear the suit on a
rudder and water can get in.  Does this mean that a wetsuit should always be
worn under a drysuit?  Somewhere you have to draw the line and decide that
you have reduced risk to an acceptable level.  You can't eliminate all risk.

Additionally it seems to me that this method, belt and suspenders if you
will, is seeking to minimize risk primarily with equipment.  The first place
to minimize risk is with judgment.  My immersion gear is way way down on the
list of things that I rely on for safety.

One of the questions I like to ask students is "what is the most important
piece of safety gear we have with us today?"  Our brains is the answer I
like and usually someone is pretty quick to get this.


>
> P.S.  The quotation at the end of your posts is tasty and
> nutritious food for thought.

Thanks.  I think so, it keeps me thinking.  Those founders said some amazing
things.

I like this one too:

"I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the
Atmosphere." Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Abigail Adams, February 22,
1787.


Cheers,


Rob Cookson
 Who also likes storms in the atmosphere.

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