PaddleWise by thread

From: <Phlopz_at_aol.com>
subject: re: [Paddlewise] sea socks
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:04:29 EDT
Excuse me, Tom.  That is sea SUCK.

It is a large bag shaped like a low-cut stocking that inserts in the cockpit 
of your kayak to form a barrier between you and the inside of the kayak.  It 
seals over the coaming under the spray skirt and extends forward under the 
foredeck with your legs inside.

I call them Sea Sucks because of my experience with one.  

Pushed by the manufacturer of my kayak as an alternative to ugly deck 
hatches, it was purported to allow loading the boat through the cockpit.  
After filling the boat with your gear, you install the sea sock and climb in. 
 The suck is coated nylon, like a spray skirt and should seal out the water.

My experience:
It sags and clings clammily to your legs.
It scrunches up and is hard to get into.
The coating wears off in a few minutes of use --allowing water to pass 
through into the boat.
There is enough flow resistance to keep the water in the boat from coming 
back through the sea suck to be pumped out of the cockpit.

I also worry about the sock pulling off of the coaming and making a mess in 
case of a wet exit --although that Murphey's Law prospect did not happen to 
me.

Various fixes to my complaints are possible.  One is to place a foam bulkhead 
inside the sea suck to prop it up off of your legs.  It might also be really 
tightly installed (say with a stiff drawstring) to make certain (that the 
spray skirt releases without pulling the sock off of the coaming).

The problem of coating wear-off might be reduced with higher quality 
materials.

My sock is in the care of my son, who uses it as a second line of defense in 
rough conditions; or does he?

bob phillips
SE MI,
Where my cockpit hatches seal tightly and open with a satisfying whoosh of 
air after a day on the water.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] sea socks
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:46:25 -0700
I am finding myself defending sea socks when I don't particularly care
for them for myself.

Phlopz_at_aol.com wrote:
> 
> Excuse me, Tom.  That is sea SUCK.

> I call them Sea Sucks because of my experience with one.

> My experience:
> It sags and clings clammily to your legs.

You have to burp the sea sock before getting into the boat.  That will
greatly reduce the clinging which results mainly from air pressure
within the boat pressing the sea sock on to you.

> It scrunches up and is hard to get into.

Ditto, burp the seasock will eliminate most if not all of this.

> The coating wears off in a few minutes of use --allowing water to pass
> through into the boat.

The Feathercraft ones work quite well for years and years from what I
have seen of them.  The place where your feet press against the sock and
footpegs is made of a heavier material.  The Feathercraft sea sock in
general has been beefed up in the last year with thicker material all
around and the seams are now sealed.  Even before they were seam sealed,
little water got through the stitches.

> There is enough flow resistance to keep the water in the boat from coming
> back through the sea suck to be pumped out of the cockpit.

I am not sure I understand the statement.  Obviously, the sea sock works
to keep water from moving through in either direction.  

> 
> I also worry about the sock pulling off of the coaming and making a mess in
> case of a wet exit --although that Murphey's Law prospect did not happen to
> me.

To my knowledge what you describe doesn't happen to anyone.  In
addition, when getting back into the boat, you will have very little
water to pump out as Phil Torrens pointed out earlier today.

> 
> Various fixes to my complaints are possible.  One is to place a foam bulkhead
> inside the sea suck to prop it up off of your legs.  It might also be really
> tightly installed (say with a stiff drawstring) to make certain (that the
> spray skirt releases without pulling the sock off of the coaming).

The stiffening board is one fix I know that some of my readers have
tried with good results.  Also a number of other fixes which I don't
need to go into here.

> 
> The problem of coating wear-off might be reduced with higher quality
> materials.

Yes.  A cheap sea sock is like a cheap condom...oops, there I go again.
:-)
> 
> My sock is in the care of my son, who uses it as a second line of defense in
> rough conditions; or does he?

Mine was used for a laundry bag and eventually I think I gave it to
someone from Feathercraft who was visiting.  I now want one back for
rolling practice.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Robert C. Cline <rccline_at_swbell.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Matt's sea socks
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 13:46:55 -0500
I bought a sock from Matt Broze thinking that it would help keep water out
during a re-entry and roll.  In rough conditions (surf), I am having
problems staying upright after the R&R with water sloshing around in the
cockpit.  I have a modified forward bulkhead to reduce cockpit volume.  A
look at the sock however revealed it would not reduce volume any, or at
least not substantially.

Maybe there is a way to reduce the sock volume?

Robert


Ralph Diaz wrote: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:46:25 -0700

> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] sea socks
> 
> 
> To my knowledge what you describe doesn't happen to anyone.  In
> addition, when getting back into the boat, you will have very little
> water to pump out as Phil Torrens pointed out earlier today.

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Matt's sea socks
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 23:24:29 -0700
Robert C. Cline wrote:

>>I bought a sock from Matt Broze thinking that it would help keep water out
during a re-entry and roll.  In rough conditions (surf), I am having
problems staying upright after the R&R with water sloshing around in the
cockpit.  I have a modified forward bulkhead to reduce cockpit volume.  A
look at the sock however revealed it would not reduce volume any, or at
least not substantially.

Maybe there is a way to reduce the sock volume?<<

When getting in the sock pull the sock back until your feet are all the way
to the end. Tuck any excess material behind the seat. Some seas socks have
less room side to side but they often don't give the knees enough room
(especially if the cockpit of the kayak is higher than average). Unless you
modified the front bulkhead to use it as your footbrace and have the back
bulkhead as your backrest the seasock will reduce the cockpit volume. Use a
fixed outrigger paddlefloat rescue rather than the Reenter and Roll if you
need the kayak stabilized for pumping. The Reenter and Roll scoops the
cockpit very full unless you can reattach the spraydeck before rolling (very
few folks can reattach the spraydeck). If you right the kayak with a sea
sock in it by pushing it up and away much less water will be scooped up.
After doing an outrigger rescue there will be much less water to destabilize
you (or to pump out) if using a sea sock. It's the rescue you are using
rather than the sea sock that results in so much water in the cockpit. In
the surf a cowboy rescue might be worth trying (rather than the R and R) if
you are trying to keep paddling without having to empty out.

If you have used a Reenter and Roll because you are playing in surf (where
an outrigger paddlefloat is not recommended) the shore is often nearby and
paddling into shore to dump out is usually the best bet. In surf I find the
seasock reduces the weight of water in the hull. If the kayak washes in
without me and hits something or sticks an end into the beach the kayak will
be much lighter and less likely to be damaged using a sea sock.

Matt Broze
http://www.marinerkayaks.com

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Robert C. Cline <rccline_at_swbell.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Matt's sea socks
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 08:46:03 -0500
The conditions I am thinking about using this in are big tidal races or
rough seas far from shore where a paddle float or paddlefloat outrigger
would not be appropriate, or should I say, not possible!

 And yes, I do have a modified bulkhead to use as a footrest and footbrace.
It's that darned sloshing water that keeps me unstable and knocks me back
over after the R&R.  I was wondering about other possible ways to either
reduce the cockpit volume further or perhaps even better, dampen the
sloshing.  

Ever consider a partial "cockpit pod" to put a barrier in the floor between
your legs to dampen the sloshing???

I am wondering about a permanent way to modify the sock so that the water
volume is reduced, particularly under the legs.

Doug mentioned orienting the boat into the waves before the roll up.

Robert

> From: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net>
> Organization: Mariner Kayaks
> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 23:24:29 -0700
> To: 'Paddlewise' <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net>
> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Matt's sea socks
> 
> Unless you
> modified the front bulkhead to use it as your footbrace and have the back
> bulkhead as your backrest the seasock will reduce the cockpit volume. Use a
> fixed outrigger paddlefloat rescue rather than the Reenter and Roll if you
> need the kayak stabilized for pumping. The Reenter and Roll scoops the
> cockpit very full unless you can reattach the spraydeck before rolling (very
> few folks can reattach the spraydeck).


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] sea socks
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:48:40 -0700
[Responding to issues Ralph D. has not already touched on.  JDK]

Phlopz_at_aol.com wrote [heavily snipped]:

> My experience:
> It sags and clings clammily to your legs.

Not mine.  I did fit a foam bulkhead so it is a barrier between me and the
clammy suck -- and that works well.  I wear neoprene most of the time, anyway,
so I'm **always** clammy ... or crabby ... or floundering.  And, sometimes I
even smelt!

> It scrunches up and is hard to get into.

Not here -- I burp it and climbing in/out is easy.

> The coating wears off in a few minutes of use --allowing water to pass
> through into the boat.

Agreed.  The brand Pygmy sells is plain old coated nylon, and the urethane
coating degrades **quickly,** even where it is a double layer.  What the hell
does Feathercraft use that is so much better, Ralph?

> There is enough flow resistance to keep the water in the boat from coming
> back through the sea suck to be pumped out of the cockpit.

You must mean through the (now uncoated) nylon.  The fix is to get a better sea
suck (as you say), or forget using one.  My sea suck is made of the same stuff
as yours, and I only end up with a few cups of water on the wrong side, so I
don't sweat it until I unload the yak.

BTW, Bob, what do you use for a flotation system, if you do not use the sea
suck, and how do you **anchor** the flotation so it will not leave during a
rough capsize?

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Vince Dalrymple <vincedalrymple_at_home.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] sea socks
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 11:25:41 -0400
Phlopz_at_aol.com wrote:
> 
> The coating wears off in a few minutes of use --allowing water to pass
> through into the boat.

Feathercraft does not use coatings on its sea socks and although my 2~3
yr. old sea sock allowed a small amount of water seepage, my newer 2 yr.
old sea sock, made from a heavier, stiffer nylon, has allowed no seepage
through the material what so ever.  Nada.

> I also worry about the sock pulling off of the coaming and making a mess in
> case of a wet exit --although that Murphey's Law prospect did not happen to
> me.

Anything is possible, I suppose. But in my 3 years of storm and surf
paddling my Khatsalano, with plenty of quick exits and LOTS of rescue
drills, I still have yet to dislodge the sea sock upon popping the
spraydeck.  And I don't worry a bit that it might happen, either.  :-)

What has been something of a problem, though, has been extricating my
gummy size 11 5.10s from the sock during those quick exits.  Have looked
like a clown on more than one occasion, I'm sure...

Vince
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:14 PDT