Excuse me, Tom. That is sea SUCK. It is a large bag shaped like a low-cut stocking that inserts in the cockpit of your kayak to form a barrier between you and the inside of the kayak. It seals over the coaming under the spray skirt and extends forward under the foredeck with your legs inside. I call them Sea Sucks because of my experience with one. Pushed by the manufacturer of my kayak as an alternative to ugly deck hatches, it was purported to allow loading the boat through the cockpit. After filling the boat with your gear, you install the sea sock and climb in. The suck is coated nylon, like a spray skirt and should seal out the water. My experience: It sags and clings clammily to your legs. It scrunches up and is hard to get into. The coating wears off in a few minutes of use --allowing water to pass through into the boat. There is enough flow resistance to keep the water in the boat from coming back through the sea suck to be pumped out of the cockpit. I also worry about the sock pulling off of the coaming and making a mess in case of a wet exit --although that Murphey's Law prospect did not happen to me. Various fixes to my complaints are possible. One is to place a foam bulkhead inside the sea suck to prop it up off of your legs. It might also be really tightly installed (say with a stiff drawstring) to make certain (that the spray skirt releases without pulling the sock off of the coaming). The problem of coating wear-off might be reduced with higher quality materials. My sock is in the care of my son, who uses it as a second line of defense in rough conditions; or does he? bob phillips SE MI, Where my cockpit hatches seal tightly and open with a satisfying whoosh of air after a day on the water. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I am finding myself defending sea socks when I don't particularly care for them for myself. Phlopz_at_aol.com wrote: > > Excuse me, Tom. That is sea SUCK. > I call them Sea Sucks because of my experience with one. > My experience: > It sags and clings clammily to your legs. You have to burp the sea sock before getting into the boat. That will greatly reduce the clinging which results mainly from air pressure within the boat pressing the sea sock on to you. > It scrunches up and is hard to get into. Ditto, burp the seasock will eliminate most if not all of this. > The coating wears off in a few minutes of use --allowing water to pass > through into the boat. The Feathercraft ones work quite well for years and years from what I have seen of them. The place where your feet press against the sock and footpegs is made of a heavier material. The Feathercraft sea sock in general has been beefed up in the last year with thicker material all around and the seams are now sealed. Even before they were seam sealed, little water got through the stitches. > There is enough flow resistance to keep the water in the boat from coming > back through the sea suck to be pumped out of the cockpit. I am not sure I understand the statement. Obviously, the sea sock works to keep water from moving through in either direction. > > I also worry about the sock pulling off of the coaming and making a mess in > case of a wet exit --although that Murphey's Law prospect did not happen to > me. To my knowledge what you describe doesn't happen to anyone. In addition, when getting back into the boat, you will have very little water to pump out as Phil Torrens pointed out earlier today. > > Various fixes to my complaints are possible. One is to place a foam bulkhead > inside the sea suck to prop it up off of your legs. It might also be really > tightly installed (say with a stiff drawstring) to make certain (that the > spray skirt releases without pulling the sock off of the coaming). The stiffening board is one fix I know that some of my readers have tried with good results. Also a number of other fixes which I don't need to go into here. > > The problem of coating wear-off might be reduced with higher quality > materials. Yes. A cheap sea sock is like a cheap condom...oops, there I go again. :-) > > My sock is in the care of my son, who uses it as a second line of defense in > rough conditions; or does he? Mine was used for a laundry bag and eventually I think I gave it to someone from Feathercraft who was visiting. I now want one back for rolling practice. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I bought a sock from Matt Broze thinking that it would help keep water out during a re-entry and roll. In rough conditions (surf), I am having problems staying upright after the R&R with water sloshing around in the cockpit. I have a modified forward bulkhead to reduce cockpit volume. A look at the sock however revealed it would not reduce volume any, or at least not substantially. Maybe there is a way to reduce the sock volume? Robert Ralph Diaz wrote: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:46:25 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] sea socks > > > To my knowledge what you describe doesn't happen to anyone. In > addition, when getting back into the boat, you will have very little > water to pump out as Phil Torrens pointed out earlier today. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Robert C. Cline wrote: >>I bought a sock from Matt Broze thinking that it would help keep water out during a re-entry and roll. In rough conditions (surf), I am having problems staying upright after the R&R with water sloshing around in the cockpit. I have a modified forward bulkhead to reduce cockpit volume. A look at the sock however revealed it would not reduce volume any, or at least not substantially. Maybe there is a way to reduce the sock volume?<< When getting in the sock pull the sock back until your feet are all the way to the end. Tuck any excess material behind the seat. Some seas socks have less room side to side but they often don't give the knees enough room (especially if the cockpit of the kayak is higher than average). Unless you modified the front bulkhead to use it as your footbrace and have the back bulkhead as your backrest the seasock will reduce the cockpit volume. Use a fixed outrigger paddlefloat rescue rather than the Reenter and Roll if you need the kayak stabilized for pumping. The Reenter and Roll scoops the cockpit very full unless you can reattach the spraydeck before rolling (very few folks can reattach the spraydeck). If you right the kayak with a sea sock in it by pushing it up and away much less water will be scooped up. After doing an outrigger rescue there will be much less water to destabilize you (or to pump out) if using a sea sock. It's the rescue you are using rather than the sea sock that results in so much water in the cockpit. In the surf a cowboy rescue might be worth trying (rather than the R and R) if you are trying to keep paddling without having to empty out. If you have used a Reenter and Roll because you are playing in surf (where an outrigger paddlefloat is not recommended) the shore is often nearby and paddling into shore to dump out is usually the best bet. In surf I find the seasock reduces the weight of water in the hull. If the kayak washes in without me and hits something or sticks an end into the beach the kayak will be much lighter and less likely to be damaged using a sea sock. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The conditions I am thinking about using this in are big tidal races or rough seas far from shore where a paddle float or paddlefloat outrigger would not be appropriate, or should I say, not possible! And yes, I do have a modified bulkhead to use as a footrest and footbrace. It's that darned sloshing water that keeps me unstable and knocks me back over after the R&R. I was wondering about other possible ways to either reduce the cockpit volume further or perhaps even better, dampen the sloshing. Ever consider a partial "cockpit pod" to put a barrier in the floor between your legs to dampen the sloshing??? I am wondering about a permanent way to modify the sock so that the water volume is reduced, particularly under the legs. Doug mentioned orienting the boat into the waves before the roll up. Robert > From: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net> > Organization: Mariner Kayaks > Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 23:24:29 -0700 > To: 'Paddlewise' <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Matt's sea socks > > Unless you > modified the front bulkhead to use it as your footbrace and have the back > bulkhead as your backrest the seasock will reduce the cockpit volume. Use a > fixed outrigger paddlefloat rescue rather than the Reenter and Roll if you > need the kayak stabilized for pumping. The Reenter and Roll scoops the > cockpit very full unless you can reattach the spraydeck before rolling (very > few folks can reattach the spraydeck). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Responding to issues Ralph D. has not already touched on. JDK] Phlopz_at_aol.com wrote [heavily snipped]: > My experience: > It sags and clings clammily to your legs. Not mine. I did fit a foam bulkhead so it is a barrier between me and the clammy suck -- and that works well. I wear neoprene most of the time, anyway, so I'm **always** clammy ... or crabby ... or floundering. And, sometimes I even smelt! > It scrunches up and is hard to get into. Not here -- I burp it and climbing in/out is easy. > The coating wears off in a few minutes of use --allowing water to pass > through into the boat. Agreed. The brand Pygmy sells is plain old coated nylon, and the urethane coating degrades **quickly,** even where it is a double layer. What the hell does Feathercraft use that is so much better, Ralph? > There is enough flow resistance to keep the water in the boat from coming > back through the sea suck to be pumped out of the cockpit. You must mean through the (now uncoated) nylon. The fix is to get a better sea suck (as you say), or forget using one. My sea suck is made of the same stuff as yours, and I only end up with a few cups of water on the wrong side, so I don't sweat it until I unload the yak. BTW, Bob, what do you use for a flotation system, if you do not use the sea suck, and how do you **anchor** the flotation so it will not leave during a rough capsize? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Phlopz_at_aol.com wrote: > > The coating wears off in a few minutes of use --allowing water to pass > through into the boat. Feathercraft does not use coatings on its sea socks and although my 2~3 yr. old sea sock allowed a small amount of water seepage, my newer 2 yr. old sea sock, made from a heavier, stiffer nylon, has allowed no seepage through the material what so ever. Nada. > I also worry about the sock pulling off of the coaming and making a mess in > case of a wet exit --although that Murphey's Law prospect did not happen to > me. Anything is possible, I suppose. But in my 3 years of storm and surf paddling my Khatsalano, with plenty of quick exits and LOTS of rescue drills, I still have yet to dislodge the sea sock upon popping the spraydeck. And I don't worry a bit that it might happen, either. :-) What has been something of a problem, though, has been extricating my gummy size 11 5.10s from the sock during those quick exits. Have looked like a clown on more than one occasion, I'm sure... Vince *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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