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From: Spencer A. Smith <asdfghjkl-cem_at_hotbot.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] best this, right that?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:21:44 -0700
Jed,

I wasn't so much hacking at the recent discussion about ACA & BCU "stuff" as I was commenting on a whole bunch of "little" things that have been said during the last few months.  I was pretty clear about the ACA / BCU stuff.  I think overhearing someone "teaching" a group of beginners this weekend, speaking as if "his way" was the "correct way", set me off.  I should paddle more & think less.  C'est la vie.

Spencer


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From: Arthur Hebert <seacajun_at_gs.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] best this, right that?
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 20:46:23 -0500
Well said Spencer!!
On my previous post "changing feathers" I wrote almost the exact same thing
that you stated below.  I deleted that part of my post concerned that I
might offend someone having it not worded correctly.   I thought my
CAPITALIZATION OF THE WORD "MY" would be understood that it works for me.  I
can't say what works for anyone else.   It is through trial and error that
we truly learn what works for us as individuals.  But it does not hurt to
hear and learn from other peoples experiences.  This is one of the ways we
learn about the depth of the sport to go out for trial and error.
Arthur Hebert
In the mist of the tourist at JAZZ FEST



Spencer wrote:

>Okay, I'm going to stick my neck out a bit.  Please don't hit back too
hard.  And it is not my intention to suggest anyone is "wrong", nor would I
like to think that I've caused anyone to shy away from posting.
>
>I've heard quite a bit lately on this list about the "best way" or the
"right way" to do something (paddle, roll, brace, etc.), or from whom you
should take paddling advice, etc.  (I recall someone even  saying "pick your
experts well").  Maybe I'm missing something here (kept my head underwater
too long, too many times?), but does there need to be so much emphasis on a
"right or particular way"?  For example, are Euro-blades better than
Greenland sticks?  I'd say no, they're just different.  Taken to the
extreme, this seems egotistical to me.
>
>I've learned to paddle by doing, by making mistakes, by instruction, by
practice, by watching others and emulating what I like, but I don't
subscribe to a "correct method".  I'd certainly not suggest my method is
anything other than my method.  Okay, here's one of my points (and sorry for
the CAPS):  I PADDLE USING MY METHODS (right or wrong), AN ADOPTION OF MANY
TECHNIQUES AND STYLES, AND NOT NECESSARILY TO BE OF SOUND USE TO ANYONE
OTHER THAN ME.  SHOULDN'T WE ALL BE DOING THIS?
>
>When people (usually those with lesser skills) ask me about their technique
or style, I'm in total agreement with the majority(?) on this list who
believe that it is a grand idea to present them with all their options and
let them choose what works best for them.  This is my second, and more
important point.  Again, sorry for the CAPS: ISN'T IT BETTER TO LET PEOPLE
USE WHAT WORKS FOR THEM V. A "STANDARD" OR "CONVENTIONAL" TECHNIQUE?  Be it
a "head dink" in the recovery phase of a brace, or an unfeathered paddle,
I'm all for trying and using those things that work for me, and forgetting
the rest.  Maybe I'm just way-off-base here, but rarely (anymore; actually,
I probably give way way too much unsolicited "advice") do I suggest any
technique other than what "works best" for another paddler, especially
beginners.  Besides, I haven't been kayaking long enough to consider myself
anything other than a capable paddler (whatever that may mean).
>
>Maybe I just needed to exhale, maybe I'm too wound up from work, maybe I
need to put in 30 miles.  Sorry for griping, but where else could I achieve
such a catharsis before I take a beating?


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From: <LedJube_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] best this, right that?
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:20:31 EDT
Hi Spencer,

    I think you may have read some of the posts too quickly. I asked the 
original questions on BCU and ACA policy and read with great care and 
interest each and every post. All of the posts were very non judgmental about 
what was right and what was wrong save for a parody written by Roger Schuman. 
Roger's post was very much tongue in cheek, but may have been to subtle for 
you to catch his forewarned sarcasm.
    I think you will find that we are all in agreement on your points of 
inclusion and tolerance of different styles. We all have our favorites but no 
one that I read said anything about best this or right that except as part of 
a parody.

Jed  (It's *MY* island!)
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From: <LedJube_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] best this, right that?
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 06:59:11 EDT
Hi Spencer,
    Please accept my apology for having presumed otherwise.

Jed


In a message dated 5/3/00 4:28:42 AM, asdfghjkl-cem_at_hotbot.com writes:

<< Jed,

I wasn't so much hacking at the recent discussion about ACA & BCU "stuff" as 
I was commenting on a whole bunch of "little" things that have been said 
during the last few months.  I was pretty clear about the ACA / BCU stuff.  I 
think overhearing someone "teaching" a group of beginners this weekend, 
speaking as if "his way" was the "correct way", set me off.  I should paddle 
more & think less.  C'est la vie.

Spencer >>

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From: <Outfit3029_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] best this, right that?
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 07:40:22 EDT
In a message dated 5/3/00 4:28:42 AM !!!First Boot!!!, 
asdfghjkl-cem_at_hotbot.com writes:

<< 
 I wasn't so much hacking at the recent discussion about ACA & BCU "stuff" as 
I was commenting on a whole bunch of "little" things that have been said 
during the last few months.  I was pretty clear about the ACA / BCU stuff.  I 
think overhearing someone "teaching" a group of beginners this weekend, 
speaking as if "his way" was the "correct way", set me off.  I should paddle 
more & think less.  C'est la vie. >>

Spencer and Friends,
  If ever there is a time for the right way and wrong way, it is with 
newcomers.  This is the purpose of formal instruction (opinion) 
STANDARDIZATION.  At this juncture, there may very well be a right and wrong 
way.  The right way being the way that will introduce paddlers to the sport 
without harming themselves, other paddlers or the paddling environment.  
After paddling for several seasons, we tend to overlook the basics.  
Newcomers need the basics.  They need reference points.  If you have a class 
of ten students and everyone is doing it there way, time management will be 
much less than effective.
  If a person is taking responsibility for a group (and teaching following an 
established format) , isn't their way the correct way? 
  It appears to me that many of the ACA/BCU, Euro/Greenland, Rudd/Non debates 
are mainly good natured.  With these issues, there is no right and wrong. 
   
     Ahh, now there's the rub.
    Bruce McC
   WEO
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From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] best this, right that?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:33:32 -0400
Outfit3029_at_aol.com wrote:
> 
>> I think overhearing someone "teaching" a group of beginners this weekend,
>> speaking as if "his way" was the "correct way", set me off.  I should paddle
>> more & think less.  C'est la vie. >>
> 
>   If ever there is a time for the right way and wrong way, it is with
> newcomers.  This is the purpose of formal instruction (opinion)
> STANDARDIZATION.  At this juncture, there may very well be a right and wrong
> way.  The right way being the way that will introduce paddlers to the sport
> without harming themselves, other paddlers or the paddling environment.
> After paddling for several seasons, we tend to overlook the basics.
> Newcomers need the basics.  They need reference points.  

While I agree that we must agree to disagree on some points (feather,
chines, Kevlar, etc), I agree with Bruce's disagreement with Spencer.
Huh?

When teaching beginners, it's a disservice to say "You can do it this
way, or that way, or this other; try them all and see which you like
best." The beginner needs A way to do it that works. My wife HATES it
when she asks me how to do something on the computer and I say "Click
here and here, or your can press CTRL-! and V, or else the easiest way
is just to type in this command..." and about here she screams "Tell me
ONE way to do it."

Of necessity, when I teach, it's MY way. You don't like it? OK, get
another instructor. Later, as students develop the capability to do "it"
at all, we can introduce other options.

And there are some things that we don't disagree about. If you see a
beginner paddling with his biceps, do you not talk to him about torso
rotation? Does anyone teach picking the head up during a roll? If a
student shows up for a class in Lake Superior in a cotton T-shirt, do
you not send him away for better clothing?

Maybe you would. But you wouldn't teach with me.

Steve (who is not really as dogmatic as this post may sound)
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