Hi all - Wow! This has been the best weekend/week. Sunday I went to the Seattle Paddlefest and tried out some boats and tonight I got to try out some more through our local Parks & Rec's Intro to Kayaking class. Mmm, mmm, mmm tonight I tried an Eddyline Merlin XT. My, oh, my what a nice boat - and pretty. As I was driving home I was thinking about how important you all say it is to actually sit in the boats. Then I found myself thinking, "gee, if I start narrowing down what I like I'll want to continue to try them which means I won't be owning one..." Well, you can see where this thinking is going. I want it now! So, I find myself reading the posts about racks -which one do people like best. And thinking, "I better get on the stick about getting a rack because the closer I get to owning a boat I'm going to have to get it home." Now I'm going to sit down with all the posts I've printed out about which boats short people like and start really looking at them since I've had a chance to paddle some of them. Oh, the Shadow was nice too. I paddled a: Romany (I'm not sure if it's a model or a brand name - that's the only name I saw on the boat) - another nice boat Shadow - liked this one, too Looksha IVS - very tippy Dagger - Seeker (couldn't keep it straight) a biadarka (double) (The president of the local club made a single and a double) a sit-on-top just for the heck of it another Eddyline (don't remember the model) Seems there were a couple others. Tippy makes me think of what one of the kayak people in class said. He thought it would be better to get a boat that scared (my word) you a little because it wouldn't be any time at all before you become better at paddling and would want an upgrade. I'd never heard that said before. I'm cogitating on this. If you have an opinion let me have it. :) What a great day! Janet *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Janet and All, > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of JW <SNIP> > Tippy makes me think of what one of the kayak people in class said. He > thought it would be better to get a boat that scared (my word) > you a little > because it wouldn't be any time at all before you become better > at paddling > and would want an upgrade. I'd never heard that said before. I'm > cogitating on this. If you have an opinion let me have it. :) > <RANT> I would be very careful with this line of thinking. My suggestion would be to focus on what your ultimate goals are. If you want to be a racer, then absolutely buy a fast boat that is more than you can handle and grow into it. If you want to really explore the "boat handling" aspect of the sport, push your skills, develop rolls, sculling braces, and play in surge or tidal streams, then get a boat that is narrower and easy to edge and roll. You can do still do all of those things in bigger boats it's just more work. But, and this is a big but, if you are seeking a more gentle experience and doing general touring, there is nothing wrong with stability and volume. Stability lets you take nice photos and relax to eat or catch fish. Volume allows you to carry big thermarests, and dutch ovens, and spare shoes, and wine, and tarps. Buy a boat based on how you plan to use it, not based on the way some expert uses their boat. There are a number of people that will tell you that tippy boats are more seaworthy and easier to handle in rough water. This has not been my experience at all. What I have seen is that if you put novice to intermediate paddlers in a mix of stable boats and tippy boats and then give them some wind and waves the stable boats stay upright much longer than the tippy ones. If you place an expert in a stable boat and an expert in a tippy boat they will both stay upright until the point of exhaustion. Stability is also a relative thing. What is tippy for a football player is going to be stable for the average woman. It is important that the boat fits you physically. Most women are shorter in the torso, and therefore need a boat that is shallower, especially at the cockpit. Also because of the lower center of gravity women can generally paddle boats that are a little narrower. I think it's true that you want a boat that you can edge, but that doesn't mean that you need a boat that makes you nervous to paddle. I recently had a student leave a class because he just couldn't handle his boat. The boat was way too much for him to handle and consequently even after owning the boat for a year he couldn't relax in the boat. In fact he couldn't keep the boat upright in anything other than mill pond conditions and that was a challenge; and this after roll instruction and several hours of edge control and bracing classes. It was a great boat, it just wasn't a good choice for this paddler. He purchased this boat because he bought into this whole expert paddler philosophy that demands tippy boats. You know the attitude, real men paddle brand x. Now all of that said. I'm a boat snob, I love skinny, tippy, frisky boats. I think that they are a lot of fun, I like to play with the boat and I don't mind getting wet. I like the way my boat handles in rough water and my photography isn't any good on dry land; so I'm used to poor photos from the boat. I can't fish out of my boat unless I'm rafted up with someone and that's ok too. Are there boats that are too tippy for me? You bet! Greg Barton's Speedster is a very fast boat when Greg is in the cockpit. When I'm in the boat it's pretty slow, I can make it go faster sideways than I can forward (I can keep my paddle in the water sideways). Bottom line, buy a boat that suits _YOUR_ needs not someone else's. </RANT> Cheers, -- Rob Cookson 3 Hats Design INTERNET PRINT ILLUSTRATION 5201 15 Ave NW Suite 220 Seattle, WA 98107 206.851.8202 direct line 206.784.1641 main office phone 206.784.2231 main office fax mailto:rob_at_3hats.com http://www.3hats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rob Cookson <rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com> wrote: Hi Janet and All, > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of JW > Tippy makes me think of what one of the kayak people in class said. He > thought it would be better to get a boat that scared (my word) > you a little > because it wouldn't be any time at all before you become better > at paddling > and would want an upgrade. I'd never heard that said before. I'm > cogitating on this. If you have an opinion let me have it. :) > I would be very careful with this line of thinking. My suggestion would be to focus on what your ultimate goals are. If you want to be a racer, then absolutely buy a fast boat that is more than you can handle and grow into it. If you want to really explore the "boat handling" aspect of the sport, push your skills, develop rolls, sculling braces, and play in surge or tidal streams, then get a boat that is narrower and easy to edge and roll. You can do still do all of those things in bigger boats it's just more work. But, and this is a big but, if you are seeking a more gentle experience and doing general touring, there is nothing wrong with stability and volume. Stability lets you take nice photos and relax to eat or catch fish. Volume allows you to carry big thermarests, and dutch ovens, and spare shoes, and wine, and tarps. Buy a boat based on how you plan to use it, not based on the way some expert uses their boat. -some snippage- You do make some very good points in your *tippy rant*, but I'd like to mention an aspect of boat selection for the novice who really wants to buy a first boat. Also about how one's *paddling intentions* can evolve in the fairly short period between novice and intermediate paddler - and on from there. When considering the purchase of a first boat, one would want to keep that boat around for a while, I should think. I've known so many *novices* go out and buy a boat that they felt comfortable in (and one that fulfilled their initial requirements of pond paddling), just to see them try desparately to sell it a month later. As one develops some basic paddling skills, the *dream* tends to expand as well, and water more challenging than that first pond is sought out (always good to come back to ponds though as well - very relaxing and great bird watching!). I loved the very first boat I sat in, and if I had not allowed my imagination to soar in that first hour (well - my imagination does that whether I allow it or not), I might have bought something like that first boat - on impulse. I would also have been putting if up for sale three days later. My general advice to a novice wanting to buy a first boat would be: First - a bit of patience. Then - paddle many boats, develop some basic skills, dream a little (and a lot) - about where such a boat might take you in this world covered with water, and then make as informed a decision as possible (keeping some room open for the expansion of one's range of paddling experiences). So yes - do buy a boat that suits your purpose(s), fits you physically, is aesthetically pleasing to you, one that will allow you to grow as a paddler, and to encounter conditions still beyond your current skill level as well. Some will end up with less tippy boats than others, but most will end up with something more tippy than the first few boats they feel comfortable in. my 2 or 3 cents Melissa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<<Tippy makes me think of what one of the kayak people in class said. He thought it would be better to get a boat that scared (my word) you a little because it wouldn't be any time at all before you become better at paddling and would want an upgrade. I'd never heard that said before.>> I'll agree with this to a point. I was totally spoiled by learning to paddle in a boat I could just be a passanger in, most of the time. I kind of learned to roll in her. I'm still working on that issue <G>. I've been happy and having fun in 30+ kt winds. I dealy love that boat and she taught me a lot but not balance. When I got my new boat, which is a wide boat that is reputed to be very stable, I found it tippy and I'm still working on the balance issues in her. If I'm going into rough waters, I take the Breeze. The limitation I'll place on getting a tippy boat to start is that if it is too hard and too much like work to paddle the boat, you won't be having fun and won't paddle as much. Get a fun boat to start. If the boat is a bit tippy and that isn't a problem for you, great. You'll most likely want another boat soon and you'll have a better idea of what kind of paddling you want to do so will be able to choose one closer to your needs. You'll have the skills to upgrade, as well. Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: <Phlopz_at_aol.com> To: <jwashburn_at_saintmail.net> Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddlefests > Jan, > > Get a Pygmy owner to let you stroke around in a GoldenEye, Coho, Osprey HP > > bob Hi Bob - I've been looking at them on the internet and guess what...one of my coworkers brought in an article today about them. Guess I'll have to take a paddle in one of them, too! Janet > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My opinion - go with the Romany. Disclaimer - I own one & love it. My husband owns one & he loves it, too. Lots of our friends have Romanys - the 16' boat is the Romany; the same boat at 18' is the Romany Explorer - Welsh boats from Nigel Dennis Kayaks. Actually, a lot of people we know are now buying the Explorer. It does go straighter faster, but it's harder to turn, and it's more boat than I think I need. It really is an expedition boat, with a lot of cargo space. Either boat, though, would be hard to outgrow. My .02. Joan > > Romany (I'm not sure if it's a model or a brand name - that's the > only name > I saw on the boat) - another nice boat > If you have an opinion let me have it. :) > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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