I remember someone on the list mentioning these awhile back. Is there any info about the effectiveness/reliability of these vs hand pumps? Can't seem to find much about them on the web. Thnaks, Lee *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"any info about the effectiveness/reliability of these vs hand pumps?" Have a look at Laurie Ford's site, http://www.tassie.net.au/~lford/epumps.htm The paddlewise site also has some postings: http://www.paddlewise.net/topics/boatequip/elecpumps.html The paddlewise digest may have some further postings. Peter Carter has some well reasoned thoughts on why a hands-free pump: http://users.senet.com.au/~pcarter/pumps.html Regards, Peter Treby 37* 42' S 145* 08' E *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks for the suggestions on looking through the archives. After reading the info, i'm still not clear on the merits of the pumps mentioned. They sound like more trouble than they're worth. Granted, an electic bilge pump sounds like the best solution for open ocean situations -- when they work. But after looking through the comments there seem to be too many variables preventing reliability. That being said, I came across an automatic bilge pump which can turn on by itself after sensing a certain level of water. This sounds like the most elegant solution with no switches, wires, etc to deal with. Anyone install something like this in their kayak? Lee *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"They sound like more trouble than they're worth." Not at all, I think they're great. My experience to date with electric pumps is pretty positive. I have a Rule 500 which hasn't failed at all, paddling most weekends and using it for cockpit clearout after re-enter and roll practice, pump outs in surf, etc. I do know of a Rule 1100 which failed. Also, a connection can fail: the other day, a paddler I was with happened to test his electric pump before launch, and nothing happened. Connections checked, it worked. Just as well, as soon after he was belted over in surf and needed it. So, if you rely on an electric pump alone, switch it on and check it before each launch. Be thorough installing it, and pull the whole system out and re-wire and re-install every couple of years or sooner. Salt water is a harsh environment. Electric pumps are quite widely used here in Victoria, Australia. Some installations are pretty slick, with flush-to-the-deck switches. The battery is sometimes also connected to illumination for deck-mounted compasses. No doubt solar panel recharging would be possible. Electric pumps work a lot quicker and easier than any foot pump I have seen so far. Despite the failure possibility, I think they are the best choice at present. A backup should be available though. Experimentally, I also have a foot pump fitted, and carry a hand pump and sponge. Is this called the belt and braces approach? Belt, braces, suspenders, double underwear...what, me worry? I'd like to see a higher volume foot pump developed, maybe operated by both feet. Any hydraulics / mechanical engineers on the list? Regards, Peter Treby 37* 42' S 145* 08' E *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have a Rule 1100 mounted in my CD Storm. I put it behind the seat. I use a 7 amp-hour gel cell battery. Based on the amp-hour capacity of the battery, the current draw of the pump and a fudge factor just because I expect the battery could last for about 3 hours of use before it needed to be recharged. I have used it extensively when I was practicing self rescue and learning to roll, these were far more intensive use than I would expect to need in real situations and I never depleted the battery. My battery is about the size of two video cassettes, smaller and lower capacity batteries are available. I have had lots of problems with the switch getting water in it and failing. My latest attempt is to coat the switch body with two layers of silicone and to seal around the switch lever with silicone grease and a boot from the switch manufacturer. The last attempt was just sealing at the cracks on the switch and using the boot, that failed after a couple of months of intermittent use. The mounting location for the switch is an issue. While I am experimenting I Have kept the switch mounted under the spray skirt on the side of the seat, a protected out of the way location. When I am satisfied this will all work consistently I will take the suggestion of the one of south pacific subscribers and mount the switch on my foredeck with a protective shroud. The other problem with the electric pump is that the Rule 1100 loses suction with about 3/4 inch of water in the bilge. That is enough water to make the boat noticably less stable. OTOH, it talks less of my energy to pump the boat with the switch and supplement with the hand pump than to hand pump the whole cockpit dry. This may be amenable to a fix with creative fiberglassing or the use of a pump that will take a pickup hose like I have seen with foot operated pumps. Dana Dickson -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 12:24 PM To: paddlewise-digest_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: PaddleWise V1 #357 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:52:32 EST From: JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com Subject: [Paddlewise] Electric bilge pumps We've kicked this issue around on Paddlewise in the past, and I think I remember that it was our folks in OZ and Kiwi-land who'd done the most work on mounting small electric pumps in kayaks. Maybe not. Just looking for some ideas. I'm in the last steps prior to installing the deck panels on a Chesapeake Light Craft (CLC) North Bay, and wanted to stop to consider mounting a Rule or other small pump and battery pack in the boat while it's still workable. Any suggestions, pro or con, and, if pro, which pump and ways in which it can be most effectively installed? How big a battery pack? What kind? How to install a switch and where ... foot operated or thru-deck? A caution: any post-installation maintenance is going to require going into the aft compartment through a 4.5" diameter access plate in the rear bulkhead, and replacement battery packs are going to have to live with that restriction, as well. This is a new, low volume "Greenland" style boat at CLC, and the maneuvering room inside the hull, once the deck goes on and the ring nails go in and the epoxy cooks off, is extremely limited. With those caveats, any ideas? Jack Martin ------------------------------ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I believe Valley sells a box type fitting for the hose that will remove most of the water from the bilge. The actual name escapes me at the moment. cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I have seen the fitting you describe on pumps in boats with permanent pumps. A pump with a hose inlet rather than the open inlet on the standard bilge pump would have to be used. Rule makes a live well pump that might work, although I suspect that the live well pump like the bilge pump will need to be submerged to be primed. Dana Dickson MIS CIH CSP Principal Industrial Hygienist Unisys Corporation -----Original Message----- From: Bob Denton [mailto:BDenton_at_aquagulf.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 4:48 PM To: Dickson, Dana A.; 'PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net' Cc: 'JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com' Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Electric Bilge Pumps I believe Valley sells a box type fitting for the hose that will remove most of the water from the bilge. The actual name escapes me at the moment. cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>That being said, I came across an > automatic bilge pump which can turn on by itself after sensing a certain > level of water. This sounds like the most elegant solution with no > switches, wires, etc to deal with. Anyone install something like this in > their kayak? > > Lee Lee, check to see how high the water level has to be before the switch will activate. Remember that these switches are designed for the bilges of motor craft, not for kayak cockpits. Bob Volin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Lee wrote, ".....I came across an automatic bilge pump which can turn on by itself after sensing a certain level of water. This sounds like the most elegant solution with no switches, wires, etc to deal with. Anyone install something like this in their kayak?" I looked at them, Lee, and didn't like the fact that you have to have a fair amount in the bilge to have the pump come on at all. And most check for water only once every minute or two or three. If it's there --- if the impeller feels resistance --- they pump until the resistance ends, and they go back to their cycle time. But you still have to have at least a half inch of water in the bilge for that to happen. There's another option. Rule --- probably Rule, maybe Atwood --- makes an automatic "500" pump for (if you'll pardon the the use of the letters) PWCs which checks for water every 20 seconds or so. It's not cheap, but it's a viable option when you'd rather not wait for the automatic function to kick in. You can add a switch to the automatic (which the manufacturer recommends, in any event) and cycle the switch once to get an immediate test cycle, but, then, you're trying to do without the switch! In my system (which I haven't yet installed permanently), I have a "submersible" switch, designed to operate under water, which I'm intending to mount in an unused deck fitting recess on the sheer, just aft of the cockpit, and just use the manual mode pump. But the switch costs about $40 --- roughly half of the whole system! Lots of choices. Jack *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jack wrote: > There's another option. Rule --- probably Rule, maybe Atwood --- makes an automatic "500" pump for (if you'll pardon the the use of the letters) PWCs which checks for water every 20 seconds or so.... It's Rule, definitely. Bob V *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The more features, the more moving parts a gadget has, the greater chance for a malfunction, don't depend on a float switch without a manual override. Also, a bilge pump is only as good as your battery, which doesn't do well in salt water. All this stuff adds weight too. Patri ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Volin <bobvolin_at_bestweb.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Electrc Bilge Pumps > >That being said, I came across an > > automatic bilge pump which can turn on by itself after sensing a certain > > level of water. This sounds like the most elegant solution with no > > switches, wires, etc to deal with. Anyone install something like this in > > their kayak? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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