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From: <dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Licensing [was Crab Pots Rescued]/Licensing
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 22:04:50 -0400
Hmmmm...

If licensing is such a good idea.  How well has it worked with autos?  How
many bad drivers does one see everyday driving to work?  How many citable
offences?  How many driver are using their safety equipment, aka, The Seat
Belt?  Start looking at drivers around you when you are driving.  How many
are wearing a seat belt?

The revocation of a license has very little affect on "bad" drivers.
Revocation is most likely caused by DUI/DWI and Careless/Reckless
situations.  DUI revocation is a notable failure in North Carolina.  So
much so that the law now requires that the in certain situations, the auto
used in a DUI offence must be seized and sold for the good of the local
school system.  NC has also successfully prosecuted and convicted DUI
drivers on second degree homicide charges.  That will keep the habitual
drunks off the road buy unfortunately that requires that an innocent person
dies first.

This year I can think of only one person maybe two who have died in
paddling accidents in North Carolina.  So far this year I can think of one
or two swimmers who drowned early in the spring  because of cold water.  We
had two people who drowned in the last few months.  The news reported today
that SIX people, yes SIX, drowned at the beaches in NC this past week.
SIX.  Not really on topic but we also had three people bit by sharks this
last week as well.

Should we license swimmers?  Sharks?  8-)  Sorry could not resist that last
one?  I want to see the that "traffic stop" on COPS!  8-)

The run ins I have had with power boaters would not have been prevented by
licensing.   I have seen hundreds of stupid/dumb acts performed by power
boaters.  Licensing would not have prevented any one of the incidents.

We can't prevent stupidity or license it away.  And the fact is we all do
stupid things from time to time.

Hmmm, well maybe not my wife.  My father in law says she is "Perfectly
perfect in every way."  But then he is biased?

Later...
Dan "My Real Name" McCarty

8-)  Or maybe it is Jed, Lead, or Oil......  8-)




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From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_telus.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Licensing [was Crab Pots Rescued]/Licensing
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:03:31 -0700
dan "the real m'coy mccarty said:

<<Hmmmm...>>
<snip lots>
<<The run ins I have had with power boaters would not have been
prevented by
licensing.   I have seen hundreds of stupid/dumb acts performed by power

boaters.  Licensing would not have prevented any one of the incidents.>>

<snip>

I for one am a firm believer in boat licensing for power boaters. Canada
is now implementing their own version. It yet remains to be seen how
effective this will be, but I know how ineffective not doing it has
been. Some guy just bought a new boat last week, fueled up at a dock,
didn't vent the fumes, and half blew up his bloody (literally) family in
Victoria's inner harbor the other day. One needs to prove competency to
drive an automobile, but up until recently with the phasing in of boat
licensing, one could by a huge vessel, and head out into untold dangers,
while running over a few "speed bumps" (Jed's real name).

I don't think we need licensing for kayakers and canoeist, but I would
like to see boat registration happen to cut down on unnecessary "crab
pot" rescues and help alleviate the difficulties that ensue with small
boat theft, etc. Just my opinion - like Mellisa, I'm glad "big brother"
is watching me out there.

BC'in Ya
Doug Lloyd




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From: <dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Licensing [was Crab Pots Rescued]/Licensing
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:37:47 -0400
Doug Lloyd said.....

|I for one am a firm believer in boat licensing for power boaters. Canada
|is now implementing their own version. It yet remains to be seen how
|effective this will be, but I know how ineffective not doing it has
|been. Some guy just bought a new boat last week, fueled up at a dock,
|didn't vent the fumes, and half blew up his bloody (literally) family in
|Victoria's inner harbor the other day.

I don't think licensing would have prevent such an accident.  Stupid is as
Stupid does.

I was launching my kayak a few years back at a public ramp.  It's a ramp
that does not have a fee to get in so lots of people go there.  As I was
getting into my kayak a truck drove down the ramp until the tires were
almost under water.  A man was standing in the water up to his waste
holding his jetski.  His wife/girlfriend got out of the truck hooked jumper
cables up to the truck's battery, handed the clamps to the man who
proceeded to jump start his PWC.  I think I was far enough away that I only
would have gotten a tingle if he had dropped the cables but I really don't
want to know.

Stupid is as Stupid does.

I don't go to the ramp anymore for a couple of reasons but mainly that
there is a lot of Stupid is at that particular ramp....

Licensing is not going to prevent such idiocey.

|One needs to prove competency to
|drive an automobile, but up until recently with the phasing in of boat
|licensing, one could by a huge vessel, and head out into untold dangers,
|while running over a few "speed bumps" (Jed's real name).

I've been having a private conversation with someone else about this and
I've kinda been playing devils advocate.  I've been sitting on the fence on
whether power boaters should be licensed.  I can see the good and I can see
the bad.  But after thinking things through I really wonder if it would
make much difference.  Stronger enforcement of current laws would have a
far greater and immediate impact.

Course the argument goes that the licensing fees would go towards
enforcement but I don't think that really happens in many states.  The
Federal goverment pays a large portion of boating safety patrol costs for
the states so the states could improve enforcement at very little cost to
themsleves.  I just don't think the Legislature wants that to happen.

My argument in the other conversation is that licensing really has no
effect on safety issues.  When was the last time anyone had a driving test?
I mean a real driving test with an instructor?  If you look at the accident
rates in autos, two age groups are most likely to cause the most accidents
and deaths.  These are the young and old drivers.  The young don't have the
maturity and skill so they get into accidents.  The old have lost their
physical abilities to drive but still do.  North Carolina has just passed
laws that lengthen the amount of time it takes for the teenager to get a
license in the hope they will get more driving experience and maybe
maturity.  Time will tell if this will have an effect on the accident rate.
Taking away an elderly person's license is just a big ugly can of worms
with lots of problems and not many good answers.

DUI awareness in the United States has been a big issue for years and has
helped to reduce the accident rate.  But once you revoke someones license
does that mean they don't drive?  Of course not, they keep driving.
Happens ALL the time.  The problem with the habitual drunk driver is that
it is almost impossible to get them off the road.  North Carolina in the
last couple of years has actually prosecuted and convicted habitual drunk
drivers on homicide charges and sent them to prison for a long time.  But
that took the death of an innocent victim.

The one case I have in mind the driver had been arrested numerous times for
DUI and drug charges.  He had no license but he was still driving.  The
license or his lack of one had no effect on his behavior.  His killing an
infant with his truck changed his behavior.  Licensing was not a factor....
8-(

Like I said I'm playing a bit of the Devil's Advocate.  But I really have
my doubts that licensing would have much effect on water safety.  The
incidents in which people have tried to make me a Jed, aka, a speed bump,
had everything to do with stupidity, lack of attention, and RUDENESS.
Licensing would not have prevented the incidents.

Increased enforcement of the current laws would have a MUCH greater impact
on boating safety than licensing requirements.  I would LOVE to see a
heavier presence of the law enforcment out on the water but the North
Carolina agency is understaffed from what I can see.  And I think the
Powers That Be want it that way.

Later...
Dan "Adding Fuel to the Fire"  8-)







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