Mark wrote : ok, the biggie ... from what you read, and saw [and thank you for all the well wishes, hopefully i answered everyone personaly] what was the thing we missed? during this whole ordeal, one basic thing was missed!! i think this will generate a bit of discussion, after i reveal it, as it is not appearant from my previous post, but this is clearly MISSING ... my wife and i didn't realize it for a week, with unfortunate consequences ... i'll let a little guessing go on, then reveal it tomorrow night, as the questions YOU ask [like 40 questions] will also reveal other things along the way. OK, so I was wrong with my first guess and learned something new - I've always just let puncture wounds bleed for a while to hopefully flush out the bad stuff. My first aid can sometimes get quite "field-expedient" - I once used a combination of spider webs and sawdust to stop the bleeding in a 1.5 inch gash (from a rusty nail) in the palm of my hand so that I could finish the job without going to the hospital (back in my younger more foolish days!). A couple of other thoughts that crossed my mind when I read the original post: - it seemed as though no-one addressed the possible shock issue during the initial treatment (always treat for shock in trauma cases - and in my mind having a paddle shaft shoved into your leg counts as trauma!) - did anyone ever make contact with the group you had been paddling with to let them know that you made it to the hospital and were fine? Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Seng, Dave wrote: > OK, so I was wrong with my first guess and learned something new - I've > always just let puncture wounds bleed for a while to hopefully flush out the > bad stuff. My first aid can sometimes get quite "field-expedient" - I once > used a combination of spider webs and sawdust to stop the bleeding in a 1.5 > inch gash (from a rusty nail) in the palm of my hand so that I could finish > the job without going to the hospital (back in my younger more foolish > days!). i let the wound bleed freely while i was still swimming the river, when i got out of the water, i checked to make sure i hadn't severed the femoral arterty [turnaquette time!! if you live] and then held pressure on it while 1st aid supplies were gathered... one materials were gathered, i let it bleed while drying off the rest of the leg. i literally had to hold the "plug" in my leg, so it would stop "popping out" > A couple of other thoughts that crossed my mind when I read the original > post: > > - it seemed as though no-one addressed the possible shock issue during the > initial treatment (always treat for shock in trauma cases - and in my mind > having a paddle shaft shoved into your leg counts as trauma!) please expand on this.... > - did anyone ever make contact with the group you had been paddling with > to let them know that you made it to the hospital and were fine? well, eventually, mostly due to canyons, and the fact cell phones, etc were useless. this was a day trip from a base camp, so there were not any phones/signal _readily_ available... someone may have called the next day, i was pretty "out of it" sunday!! the trip coordinator followed up first thing monday morning. mark -- #-canoeist[at]dotzen[dot]org------------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [__| [__\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.dotzen.org/paddler [index to club websites i administer] ---- A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner. -- English Proverb *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave wrote: > > - it seemed as though no-one addressed the possible shock > issue during the > > initial treatment (always treat for shock in trauma cases - > and in my mind > > having a paddle shaft shoved into your leg counts as trauma!) Mark replied: > please expand on this.... Not sure why you've asked me to expand on this, because in the end you proved that you weren't suffering from traumatic shock. In any serious traumatic injury I always treat for shock (I once had to explain to two passersby how to treat _me_ for shock after I recovered consciousness after a bad motorcycle accident). Shock can be insidious and once it sets in it's difficult to treat in the field. Get the victim down, cover them with something to keep them warm, elevate the feet for anything other than a head injury, for a head injury raise the head. (Face is red, raise the head - Face is pale, raise the tail) Simple steps that can be done quickly and easily while other primary attention is being given to the wound/fracture, etc. It doesn't hurt to do it and it can safe a life. Signs of shock can include (but aren't limited to): Pale, clammy skin Rapid, shallow breathing Nausea Thirst Evidence of a loss of body fluids Weak or rapid pulse Loss of consciousness Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Seng, Dave wrote: > Dave wrote: > > > > - it seemed as though no-one addressed the possible shock > > issue during the > > > initial treatment (always treat for shock in trauma cases - > > and in my mind > > > having a paddle shaft shoved into your leg counts as trauma!) > > Mark replied: > > > please expand on this.... > > Not sure why you've asked me to expand on this, because in the end you because your answer is now in writing for the lesser knowledged to read and think about ;-) [i'm a parent of teenagers, have to keep them thinking] > proved that you weren't suffering from traumatic shock. In any serious > traumatic injury I always treat for shock (I once had to explain to two > passersby how to treat _me_ for shock after I recovered consciousness after > a bad motorcycle accident). correct, and the answer to what i'm looking for is in another thread, but not this one ;-) so other folks can ponder for a few, i'll save my answer for later this evening ... the questions and answers given now are priceless, as they are real events, through which the participants learned something. and lived to tell about it, but, under edxtremely similar circumstances, could lead to a permanent disablity, or in extreme, death. i was NOT anywhere near that extreme... BUT ... one week after the first hospital visit, i ended up back in the ER, with something related to the accident, but not neccessarily due to the first injury, HINT ;-) mark .sig included previously *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark (who is toying with us) wrote: > the questions and answers given now are > priceless, as they are real events, through which the > participants learned > something. and lived to tell about it, but, under edxtremely similar > circumstances, could lead to a permanent disablity, or in > extreme, death. > i was NOT anywhere near that extreme... > > BUT ... one week after the first hospital visit, i ended up > back in the > ER, with something related to the accident, but not > neccessarily due to > the first injury, HINT ;-) Mark, When they were treating your leg wound on the riverbank, did anyone check to see if you were wearing any kind of Medical Alert bracelet or necklace? (Note - this should be done as part of the full body assessment). Since you were a conscious patient, did they query you regarding any allergies or other existing medical conditions? Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Seng, Dave wrote: > Mark (who is toying with us) wrote: > > > ER, with something related to the accident, but not > > neccessarily due to > > the first injury, HINT ;-) > > Mark, > > When they were treating your leg wound on the riverbank, did anyone check > to see if you were wearing any kind of Medical Alert bracelet or necklace? > (Note - this should be done as part of the full body assessment). Since you no full body assessment was ever done, not even at the ER, which i have mixed feelings about... nobody EVER did this to me ... not even the ER drs ... all _my_ focus was on my bloody leg, and what to do about it ... no other blood. ER drs ass-u-me-d i knew the extent of my injuries ... of course, from their side, they see me come in and calmly tell them i cut my leg!! they asked when, and i looked at my watch, checked the stop watch, and told them to the nearest 5 minutes, that it was 4 hours 25 minutes previously. seems organized and coherent to me ;-) i had bruised my ribs underneath my shoulder blade when i go slammed head first down the river... there was never any visible bruising, and once i got to the ER, i had an IV pain killer for the stitches, so never felt my back injury. it wasn't until i stopped taking hte pain killers that i realized there was a problem. i had expected to feel beat up, and i did, but i didn't know the extent of the problem... > were a conscious patient, did they query you regarding any allergies or > other existing medical conditions? > > Dave Seng > Juneau, Alaska i also have rheumatoid arthritis, and take handfulls of medicine every day [but i have now been steroid free for almost 18 months] which is more than just important!! i had to wear a medic alert tag for 14 years due to that very thing... i was alert, and able to tell folks that... but my mind tends to try & ignore muscle/joint pain, so i never felt my back problem... which made me really feel better, that i had a helmet & thick pfd, or it would have been more serious... but this was the step missed by everyone, because of my "alertness" etc, etc... now, had someone patted me on the back, BEFORE i got to the IV, i might have noticed a bit of a twitch... my wife said the muscle was standing up 2" [5cm] and having spasms when we got to the ER & the dr was doing the exam [the 2nd time, one week later] he knew i wasn't just a druggie looking for more pain killers!! [i do really look like a 60's throw back ;-]# very good, i'd like to have you on my trips too 8-) mark -- #-canoeist[at]dotzen[dot]org------------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [__| [__\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.dotzen.org/paddler [index to club websites i administer] ---- A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner. -- English Proverb *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:16 PDT