Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:09:49 -0700 From: ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How Would You: Change to. . . .PFD Ralph wrote: <<Hot weather? I have paddled in 90 percent humidity and 97 degree air temperature with no wind and relentless sun beating down.>> When was the last time that the water temperature was hotter than the air temperature in NY? It gets that way here at latitude 8 quite often. Nothing, including rolling or dipping, cools you down for more than a few seconds... if at all. Maybe inflatable PFDs would work in tropical conditions. However, standard PFDs have foam inside and foam is an excellent insulator. Foam against your body can make you overheat if conditions are right. If you're paddling at any speed faster than lilly-dipping, you're going to get hot in a PFD if both the air AND water temperatures are high enough. Those conditions are normally accompanied by dead calm weather over here. I see no logical reason to wear a PFD in those conditions. Sure, the weather can change. I've got a PFD with me AT ALL TIMES. It doesn't take more than a few seconds to put it on. <<Surf? I guess there may be a good argument for not using a PFD when playing in surf. I don't play in surf.>> I do play in the surf and I go out in storms too. You should have a PFD in the surf most of the time. However, there are times when it can be dangerous. Those times are rare. If you've ever been in the 'impact zone' when really big waves are picking you up and tossing you 'over the falls' you'd understand. I reiterate, those circumstances are rare. <<Don't the Tsunami Rangers who famously play in surf wear PFDs as a rule?>> Rangers smangers. Other than the cool name, I don't see that they're doing anything special. There are plenty of paddlers who can do everything that they do... but, of course, they don't have a cool club name. Don't the Tsunami Rangers <yawn> play in COLD water and around rocks? Sure they do. They should wear PFD while in those conditions. They should also wear helmets at all times when surfing around rocks to protect their famous heads. <<Flatwater that is absolutely calm? You never know when conditions may change. The sea, and even a lake, can be fickle that way. If the PFD is comfortable (which it certainly can be) and, if you can cool off if it hot while wearing a PFD (methods outlined above), then why not wear it at all times.>> Do you wear a PFD while snorkeling? Do you have one nearby while snorkeling? Gee, what if the weather changes? This whole PFD debate is beyond boring. If you feel that you need to wear a PFD all the time, then wear the darn thing. All of these monotonous 'across the board' statements about PFDs are truly unsound given the wide variety of conditions that exist in the watery realm. Learn how to swim and work on your self-rescue technique. Use your personal judgement to access the situation to see if it warrants having your PFD on or not. Cheers anyway, PFDave Latitude 8 Southern Thailand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
For Sale: Almost New Kokatat Meridian Front Entry Size Large Blue and Black Cordura Knee and Seat Reinforcement Skirt Tunnel Flap RELIEF ZIPPER Used 3 times, only once in salt water. Always rinsed with clean fresh water and 303ed after use. $550 New $400 shipped anywhere in the lower 48. Other shipping can be arranged. Thanks, Daniel ************************ Daniel Key UW ACMS dtheman_at_u.washington.edu ************************ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I don't want to belabor the point but there are several questions you ask that invite answering. But before answering them I would like to state two things: 1. You certainly have a right to choose not to wear a PFD under certain cirmcumstances or that a person can choose to not wear a PFD under all circumstances. An exception would be for commercial or club trips where the company and club insist that you comply with a wear-PFD mandate. 2. Sometimes in these kinds of arguments about what a person should do, it is often worthwhile turning around the question. So instead of someone like me coming up to a person and asking them or telling them to put on their PFD or to zip it up fully, would you or anyone go up to a person who is already wearing a PFD on the water and tell them or ask them to take it off? Now to some of your questions: Dave Williams wrote: > > Ralph wrote: > > <<Hot weather? I have paddled in 90 percent humidity and 97 degree air > temperature with no wind and relentless sun beating down.>> > > When was the last time that the water temperature was hotter than the air > temperature in NY? Last week we had a few days in which the water was about 10 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than the air. Generally you find this kind of differential happens in August and September. Of course, I am being precise in answering your question. The temperature of the water is 75-78 and those daytime air temperatures were in the middle 60s. Your point was that water at 88 or whatever it is out your way does not have an immediate cooling effect. But even it would if it makes you wet and the water evaporating off your wet shirt or body would feel cooling. > However, standard PFDs have foam inside and foam is an excellent insulator. > Foam against your body can make you overheat if conditions are right. If > you're paddling at any speed faster than lilly-dipping, you're going to get > hot in a PFD if both the air AND water temperatures are high enough. Those > conditions are normally accompanied by dead calm weather over here. I see > no logical reason to wear a PFD in those conditions. Sure, the weather can > change. I've got a PFD with me AT ALL TIMES. It doesn't take more than a > few seconds to put it on. Good luck in putting it on if you suddenly capsize and you are in the water trying to hang on to your paddle and boat when weather has turned suddenly nasty and the sea is beginning to rage. Oh, I know it can be done and have practiced drills for hanging on to that all while putting on a PFD. But let me tell you something...it is a lot easier to deal with all that if you have the PFD already nailed on to you, i.e. one lest thing to worry about in a self-rescue. > > <<Don't the Tsunami Rangers who famously play in surf wear PFDs as a rule?>> > > Rangers smangers. Other than the cool name, I don't see that they're doing > anything special. There are plenty of paddlers who can do everything that > they do... but, of course, they don't have a cool club name. > > Don't the Tsunami Rangers <yawn> play in COLD water and around rocks? I get the feeling that the Tsunami Rangers would still wear PFDs if they were in similar surf conditions in hotter weather. But I don't know that for a fact. I doubt though that they wear the PFDs to ward off the effects of cold water. While the PFD may help in that department, they have their wet suits for that. > <<Flatwater that is absolutely calm? You never know when conditions may > change. The sea, and even a lake, can be fickle that way. If the PFD is > comfortable (which it certainly can be) and, if you can cool off if it hot > while wearing a PFD (methods outlined above), then why not wear it at all > times.>> > > Do you wear a PFD while snorkeling? Do you have one nearby while > snorkeling? Gee, what if the weather changes? You are comparing apples and oranges. There is a difference between paddling and swimming. You wear helmet and elbow guards when roller blading but not when walking or running; why? because one has greater risk than the other of injury. Back to paddling and swimming. Generally in swimming it is a situation you control; you try to stay within your swimming capacity and range. and, in snorkeling, you increase your swimming ability with fins and a mask. You snorkel off a beach or boat. In paddling you may be far from shore, out of your range of swimming ability. There are chances that you may lose that fine nice floating platform you paddled out in. Or you may want to climb back aboard. The PFD gives you an added measure of bouyancy that helps you remount. If you need to blow up a paddle float, the PFD keeps you from sinking with each blow into the inflation tube. Try blowing up a paddle float when not wearing a PFD; you will find that the action tends to sink you a bit. > > This whole PFD debate is beyond boring. If you feel that you need to wear a > PFD all the time, then wear the darn thing. All of these monotonous 'across > the board' statements about PFDs are truly unsound given the wide variety of > conditions that exist in the watery realm. Learn how to swim and work on > your self-rescue technique. Use your personal judgement to access the > situation to see if it warrants having your PFD on or not. I am sorry you are bored and you find this monotonous. But thanks for your questions since it helps illuminate the choices regarding wearing a PFD and why it is generally a good idea to wear one. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Howdy Risky Ralph, <<1. You certainly have a right to choose not to wear a PFD under certain cirmcumstances or that a person can choose to not wear a PFD under all circumstances. An exception would be for commercial or club trips where the company and club insist that you comply with a wear-PFD mandate.>> Yes, I totally agree that PFDs should be worn by commercial operators and clubs if that is the law. <<2. Sometimes in these kinds of arguments about what a person should do, it is often worthwhile turning around the question. So instead of someone like me coming up to a person and asking them or telling them to put on their PFD or to zip it up fully, would you or anyone go up to a person who is already wearing a PFD on the water and tell them or ask them to take it off?>> Of course I wouldn't ask someone to take a PFD off! What in the world is going through your head, man? If someone wants to wear one, great. What I'm saying is that it should be up to the individual. That individual hopefully is using sound judgement when considering the consequences. I'm not some kind of 'anti-PFD' psycho. <<Your point was that water at 88 or whatever it is out your way does not have an immediate cooling effect. But even it would if it makes you wet and the water evaporating off your wet shirt or body would feel cooling.>> Yep, it might have a bit of an "immediate cooling effect", but that doesn't mean much in the long term. I can't be bothered dipping buckets of water over my head every other stroke... I usually prefer to paddle when I go paddling. <<Good luck in putting it on if you suddenly capsize and you are in the water trying to hang on to your paddle and boat when weather has turned suddenly nasty and the sea is beginning to rage. Oh, I know it can be done and have practiced drills for hanging on to that all while putting on a PFD. But let me tell you something...it is a lot easier to deal with all that if you have the PFD already nailed on to you, i.e. one lest thing to worry about in a self-rescue.>> First of all, I don't "suddenly" capsize. If I do, I roll... case dismissed. Second of all... Oooooo, yuk, now I really don't want to wear one. When did they start "nailing" them on you! Plus, I've never seen the state of the sea change faster than I could put a PFD on. I also tend to look around while I'm paddling. Every paddler should strive to be competent at understanding weather signs. I said: > Don't the Tsunami Rangers <yawn> play in COLD water and around rocks? Sure they do. They should wear PFD while in those conditions. You said: <<I get the feeling that the Tsunami Rangers would still wear PFDs if they were in similar surf conditions in hotter weather. But I don't know that for a fact. I doubt though that they wear the PFDs to ward off the effects of cold water. While the PFD may help in that department, they have their wet suits for that.>> Perhaps you misunderstood me. "Those conditions" I referred to were BOTH cold water and ROCKS. They should wear a PFD around rocks. They just happen to be in cold water too, which is another very important time to wear one. I would. You said: > <<Flatwater that is absolutely calm? You never know when conditions may > change. The sea, and even a lake, can be fickle that way. If the PFD is > comfortable (which it certainly can be) and, if you can cool off if it hot > while wearing a PFD (methods outlined above), then why not wear it at all > times.>> I retorted smartly: > Do you wear a PFD while snorkeling? Do you have one nearby while > snorkeling? Gee, what if the weather changes? You came back lamely with: <<You are comparing apples and oranges. There is a difference between paddling and swimming.>> Nope, I'm not comparing fruit. We are talking about paddlers swimming. <<You wear helmet and elbow guards when roller blading but not when walking or running; why? because one has greater risk than the other of injury. Back to paddling and swimming. Generally in swimming it is a situation you control; you try to stay within your swimming capacity and range. and, in snorkeling, you increase your swimming ability with fins and a mask.>> How can you say that you have control while swimming? Can you control the possibility of one of those sudden weather changes occurring? You can also increase your swimming ability by practicing. Not relying on 'gadgets' is almost always better. <<You snorkel off a beach or boat.>> Yes, and I would be much farther away from either of those than I ever would be from my kayak. << blah, blah, blah... The PFD gives you an added measure of bouyancy that helps you remount.>> Yep, and it catches everything on the deck. <<I am sorry you are bored and you find this monotonous. But thanks for your questions since it helps illuminate the choices regarding wearing a PFD and why it is generally a good idea to wear one.>> Are you throwing your hands up like you 'won' or something? Good one dude! Judgement is the issue. My point is that it IS safe not to wear a PFD under certain conditions. Experienced kayakers should be free to access the situation or conditions and decide whether to wear a PFD or to merely have it easily accessible. What I'm NOT saying is that they don't have their value. Of course they do. There are plenty of times when it would be foolish not to put one on. For example, you should always have one on in cold water or cold weather. Cheers, Dave (12 time zones away from that wonderful police state) Phuket, Thailand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
If you wear your PFD you might not drown or if you do you body will be easily recovered . If you live your genes are at a better chance of being passed on If you don't wear your PFD you stand a good chance of drowning and or your body not being found for several days and you gene pool belongs where it belongs, crab food. I can't make you wear a PFD, just like I can't make you not wear one. It is a individuals choice if they want to be recycled as crab food or not. Lighten up people. Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
dldecker_at_se.mediaone.net wrote: > > If you wear your PFD you might not drown or if you do you body will be > easily recovered . If you live your genes are at a better chance of being > passed on > If you don't wear your PFD you stand a good chance of drowning and or your > body not being found for several days and you gene pool belongs where it > belongs, crab food. Which apparently selects for people better able to tolerate heat. Just the thing in these days of global warming. Steve (just helpin' Dana stir the pot ;) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:56 PM 8/22/00 -0400, Steve Cramer wrote: >dldecker_at_se.mediaone.net wrote: >> >> If you wear your PFD you might not drown or if you do you body will be >> easily recovered . If you live your genes are at a better chance of being >> passed on > >> If you don't wear your PFD you stand a good chance of drowning and or your >> body not being found for several days and you gene pool belongs where it >> belongs, crab food. > >Which apparently selects for people better able to tolerate heat. Just >the thing in these days of global warming. > >Steve (just helpin' Dana stir the pot ;) Its not global warming we just have been in a cool spell and now we are getting back to normal :) stir, stir. Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> dldecker_at_se.mediaone.net wrote: > > > > If you wear your PFD you might not drown or if you do you > body will be > > easily recovered . If you live your genes are at a better > chance of being > > passed on > > > If you don't wear your PFD you stand a good chance of > drowning and or your > > body not being found for several days and you gene pool > belongs where it > > belongs, crab food. One thing that has kind of struck me as strange during this debate about whether or not to wear a PFD is that no one (as best I can recall) has mentioned how easy it is to simply remove a PFD if you suddenly find yourself in a situation where it has become a detriment. I'm not talking about a situation like being hung up on a sweeper or anything like that, but rather about open water or even surf. If a PFD is a hindrance in that type of situation I'd bet that most folks could shed their PFD in less than 30 seconds. My point is that IMO it's better to have it and be able to get rid of it than to not have it and really need it. As always, it's best to try things for yourself and use the methodology that works best for you. I'm a bit of a klutz and have found that trying to put on my PFD in water conditions that could cause me to capsize, while holding on to my paddle and kayak, is pretty tough. The issue is one that every person needs to decide for themselves, hopefully rationally and not based on ignorance or even worse - bravado or stupidity. I'm in total agreement with Rick Sylvia's comments about education and setting a good example - it's a concept that I believe in strongly. Someone someday might benefit from something one of us "taught" them as we walked by them at the boat launch while wearing a PFD. Maybe - and maybe not - doesn't make a difference for me - I do it because it _might_ make a difference. I choose to wear a PFD all the time. For WW paddling there isn't any option as far as I'm concerned - just do it. In open water I've never needed a PFD and short of being knocked unconscious really have a hard time imagining a situation where it would be necessary, but I do it. No skin off my nose and I sweat like a horse any time I'm paddling and it's over 60F anyway, PFD or no PFD it doesn't matter. Besides, without that PFD where are you going to stash your knife, flares, compass, whistle, and that all important snack? In my mind the issue isn't really so much about PFD's per se, but rather about education of the paddling public in general - how many of us have read almost every year about someone who died while paddling in shorts and a t-shirt, without a PFD, by themselves, etc, etc? Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
When was the last time a PFD *decreased* safety in the water? Given a choice, I'll take increased safety over comfort any day. As a Tsunami Ranger put it, "Sea kayaking is an in-the-water sport, not an on-the-water sport". .ashton On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Seng, Dave wrote: > > dldecker_at_se.mediaone.net wrote: > > > > > > If you wear your PFD you might not drown or if you do you > > body will be > > > easily recovered . If you live your genes are at a better > > chance of being > > > passed on [snip] > I'm in total agreement with Rick Sylvia's comments about education and > setting a good example - it's a concept that I believe in strongly. Someone > someday might benefit from something one of us "taught" them as we walked by > them at the boat launch while wearing a PFD. Maybe - and maybe not - > doesn't make a difference for me - I do it because it _might_ make a > difference. I choose to wear a PFD all the time. [snipped] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Seng wrote: .. I'm in total agreement with Rick Sylvia's comments about education and setting a good example - it's a concept that I believe in strongly. Someone someday might benefit from something one of us "taught" them as we walked by them at the boat launch while wearing a PFD. .. I never wore a PFD when I grew up paddling in the North Sea (early 1970s). Few people thought about PFDs for paddlers in those days. As a consequence I caused my parents grey hair many a time paddling in pretty marginal conditions, I'm sure. Even if anyone had told me to wear one, I'd never seen my father in a PFD, therefore there was obviously no need. I'm pretty attached to my kids and I think a lot about lessening the potential consequences of risky situations, in which they might find themselves. I would not be caught dead without a PFD on or near the water, even if there were no other reason for it than to set an example for them. My comfort level is considerably increased by seeing them deploying safety gear. Setting an example is the only effective way to convince them to do so. Ralph Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com http://www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Perhaps an oblique look at the PFD/Safety Equipment discussion. In my case, I have always hated hats, and still hate hats. However, and this is a big HOWEVER, I am blessed with an almost perfect head, unsullied by very many of those filamentous protrusions which so common on most people's cranial areas. As a result I always wear a hat when I am Kayaking, since I live in a High UV area of the West Coast, California. I rarely forget to use the 45 sunblock, but I never forget the hat, not after that one time that I did forget it some 35 years ago when I was paddling my old Royak out to a dive site. Second degree burns all over a bald head is really uncomfortable. For the same, and other reasons like broken glass and rocks, I always wear hardsole rubber bootees. I paddle a SOT boat. I've seen people with 2nd and even 3rd degree burns on their feet. When I was a motorcycle rider for 30 years, and a motorcycle cop for 14, I ALWAYS wore a helmet. Helmets are odiously uncomfortable, but I've seen at least a dozen cases where people died, or were thereafter very vegetative, solely for the lack of wearing one. A couple were less than 5 mph accidents where the head impacted something solid like a a rock (edge of the concrete sidewalk) or a kayak (a car) and suffered fatal damage. I've come off of a motorcycle at over 100 mph two times. One time the helmet saved me from serious injury; it was totally destroyed, the other time I miraculously escaped with 3 quarter sized abrasions and not even a bruise. (no scratches were to be found on the helmet.) I feel the same way about my PFD that I do about my hat/helmet, love/ hate. It's hot/bulky but I wear it anyway. If I get too hot I go for a short dip in the water which is never warmer than about 55 here. If I lived in warmer climes, I might modify that policy, somewhat, the way I did with the ballistic vest when I was M/C officer. If I wore it during the day with temp. at over 80 or so I would get prickly heat rash and couldn't sleep at nite. A cop can't afford to be overly tired at work, especially a motorcycle rider, so I would stop and put it on at dusk, and wore it all the time at under 75 degrees. The threat that vest was intended to defeat was, statistically, 90% at night, so I felt I could probably get away with it. You play the odds and sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. When losing means my life, and not my money, I'm a _lot_ more careful. I enjoy my life, and spent a lot of time and work stuffing my head with egregious facts that I don't want to lose. I don't advocate laws which compell reasonableness, however reasonableness is interpreted. I do believe in evolution having observed it in action on many occasions. I don't willfully try to become an example of it's action. Your mileage may vary. I'm willing to accept the discomfort of the PFD for the promise of being able to continue to experience the joy of paddling my little teeny boat in intimate contact with power of the immensely huge ocean. I once got to touch an orca when I was in the water. It could have disposed of me in an instant. I felt exalted the same way I do when kayaking. The sea can dispose of me any time s/he feels like it, but perhaps because I have always treated it gently and with respect for its moods, s/he has not become enraged with me, yet, so I am able to continue a lifelong love of the sea in my 62nd year. Fair winds and happy bytes, -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Flory, San Jose, CA. daflory_at_pacbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speak softly and study Aikido, then you won't need a big stick. ©2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:56 PM 8/22/00 -0700, Dave Flory wrote: >Perhaps an oblique look at the PFD/Safety Equipment discussion. In my >case, I have always hated hats, and still hate hats. However, and this is >a big HOWEVER, I am blessed with an almost perfect head, unsullied by >very many of those filamentous protrusions which so common on most >people's cranial areas. Jackie what a perfect opportunity for your ASCII pictures, please use it :) Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I see the PFD issue like I see the seat belt issue. Some people say you don't need to wear a seat belt in a parking lot at 5 mph, or they claim they don't need one driving to the grocery store where the speed limit is <25 mph. Or statistically they can drive 100,000 miles before an accident is likely to happen. But when that drag racer comes across the intersection at 65 mph and clobbers them, they won't have time to put it on. Or when the kid coming the other way bends over to pick up a nickel that he dropped, and crosses the center line, you've got a 50 mph head-on collision that isn't going to wait until you buckle up. Similarly, you might not need a PFD 99.9% of the time, but if and when you do need it, you might not have time to put it on. Let's say you're drifting down a river and tip on an unseen log or rock, knock yourself unconscious when falling, and your paddling partner doesn't look back for a minute or two. Life is full of freak accidents, and the odds favor those who take prudent measures. Darrell Lee Alameda, CA snorkler_at_juno.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 8/22/00 7:44:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, snorkler_at_juno.com writes: << Similarly, you might not need a PFD 99.9% of the time, but if and when you do need it, you might not have time to put it on. >> Sorry, but 99.9% of the time are statistics I can live with. The Statistics are probably greater then this that I will be killed in an auto accident. I'm not about to stop driving. The statistics are probably greater then this that you might sustain a head injury while kayaking. Do you always wear a helmet? Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 8/22/00 1:44:57 PM, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com writes: << I am sorry you are bored and you find this monotonous. But thanks for your questions since it helps illuminate the choices regarding wearing a PFD and why it is generally a good idea to wear one. >> When I started paddling, not so long ago, I hated wearing my PFD. For all of the same reasons that people have mentioned, they are restrictive at times, hot other times and not neccessary 99 % of the time. These days I swim much less yet wear my PFD much more. While for some experts, in some very specific conditions, a PFD can be a hinderance, I have not heard anyone deliver any convicing arguement against there use while actually paddling. On the other hand, the statistics show that PFD use significantly reduces the chance of loss of life. Besides, who amoung us couldn't use a couple of extra pockets? ;-) For non-experts, PFD use should be a non-issue. In the sudden fear and anxiety that can accompany an unscheduled capsize, a PFD an make the difference between life and death. What more can we ask of our PFD's. If an expert doesn't want to wear a PFD, that is their right. As for us mere mortals, we will be best served by following the conventional wisdom on this issue. Jed (happy to play the lemming and wear my PFD even when I don't think I'll need it) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Dave Williams" <dave_at_paddleasia.com> > > Do you wear a PFD while snorkeling? Do you have one nearby while > snorkeling? Gee, what if the weather changes? > I wear a PFD when snorkling. It's a snorkling vest actually and it's inflatable. I also wear a weight belt and farmer john. I use the weight to help me get near neutral bouyancy and inflate the vest if I want to stay at the surface. Fully inflated it gives me enough bouyancy to swim a long time even if tired. Being a poor swimmer, I wouldn't be without it. Mike PS - I think the overheating effects of a PFD are exaggerated. I wear a PFD and farmer john in any but _very_ warm water conditions. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> PS - I think the overheating effects of a PFD are exaggerated. > I wear a PFD and farmer john in any but _very_ warm water > conditions. Me, too. I've read this whole PFD thing with some interest. Of course, it's as big a debate in the sailing community as it is here. IMO, a PFD is far more essential in a sea kayak than on a sailboat, although I consider it pretty important gear on a sailboat, as well. I *always* wear my PFD kayaking. It has occurred to me that I look pretty silly, launching into a shallow pond to go bird watching wearing my full safety gear setup. I can live with that. OTOH, I have very mixed feelings about people telling me I *have* to wear one, especially other boaters. For some reason, it really bugs me, pisses me off, to have some boater come up to me and sanctimoniously lecture me or "inform" me of the "proper" way to do things. I'm not sure why this is. I'm willing to consider that it may be my own shortcomings that make me feel this way. But my general feeling is that boating is an individual thing, and I resent someone purporting to impose their own personal views on me as to how it should be done. .... On the other other hand. . . I'm not necessarily opposed to regulations requiring the use of PFD's by boaters (even all boaters, maybe especially all boaters). A carefully considered societal determination that a rule is appropriate is different from some individual taking it upon himself to be the self-appointed evangalist of the boating community. . . . It's not really a simple issue. Not at all. Goes to the very heart of our basic political philosophies. Well, anyway, I always wear my PFD while kayaking. Always. Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:16 PDT