Folks, I've read some of the PFD discussion..... deleted most before opening. Wanna know what a rookie thinks? I think the discussion is up in the ozone layer, well above the experience of most paddlers. We don't have the gizillion miles logged on the water with numerous experiences in all types of hair raising situations - WE'RE STILL LEARNING. But, we all -- you and I alike -- represent paddling every time we talk to a friend, carry a boat on our vehicle, launch, or browse through an outfitters store (or worse, end up on the news for something we did or didn't do). Therefore, I'm going to wear my PFD even in 2 foot water, 10 feet from shore, when the water is like glass. And where do you think I'll get an education so I can join discussions like this with pertinent information and opinion...... from you guys, the experienced "mentors" (whether you recognize and accept it, or not) as well as personal experiences. So, what example do you want to set for the rookies like me? PFD.... or no PFD? It shouldn't matter that there may be situations when an individual can choose not to wear one - they still represent paddling to everyone who ever finds out about your choice. Do we want the image of saftey first, or safety as a choice? And remember, the average person, regardless of cirumstances at the time of the choice, will equate PFD with Safety and no PFD with no safety. It's been drilled into us for years! We don't understand the nuances! When and if I get to a level when I can consider myself able to hold my own in these discussions, I'm still going to wear a PFD in 2 foot water, 10 feet from shore, when the water is like glass, BECAUSE A ROOKIE MAY BE WATCHING AND EMULATING MY EXAMPLE!!!!! To me this is not unlike a professional athlete. Sure, he can chose to act and think however he/she wishes, and endorse whatever product he/she wishes, just like you can choose to wear or not wear a PFD, but in the end, kids are looking up to this individual and treating them as a role model, just as rookie paddlers look up to some of you folks. Whether you asked for it or not, are you going to accept the responsibility that comes with being a role model and drive home the use of PFDs? Here's a last example that might hit a little harder.... would you put a gun to your head and pull the trigger while your child watches? Even if you knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it was unloaded, and there was zero risk to you whatsoever, what do you think you just taught your child who looks to you for education and doesn't know all the other things that you know? Like the child, we see PFD or no PFD. We don't see the circumstances and subtle nuances. With all that said, and recognizing that the PFD is a choice each and every time we wear it or toss it aside, and regardless of circumstances, isn't there more to gain by wearing it than not wearing it? Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rick Sylvia wrote: > shore, when the water is like glass. And where do you think I'll get an > education so I can join discussions like this with pertinent information and > opinion...... from you guys, the experienced "mentors" (whether you > recognize and accept it, or not) as well as personal experiences. So, what > example do you want to set for the rookies like me? PFD.... or no PFD? It > shouldn't matter that there may be situations when an individual can choose > not to wear one - they still represent paddling to everyone who ever finds > out about your choice. Do we want the image of saftey first, or safety as a > choice? And remember, the average person, regardless of cirumstances at the > time of the choice, will equate PFD with Safety and no PFD with no safety. > It's been drilled into us for years! We don't understand the nuances! > > When and if I get to a level when I can consider myself able to hold my own > in these discussions, I'm still going to wear a PFD in 2 foot water, 10 feet > from shore, when the water is like glass, BECAUSE A ROOKIE MAY BE WATCHING > AND EMULATING MY EXAMPLE!!!!! This is a valid point which probably doesn't apply much to Dave Williams who is off in Thailand where not many rookies are going to be going down to a launch site with a brand new boat from a large outdoor shop and taking his/her cues from what seasoned paddlers are wearing, carrying and doing. Years ago in a local club we started getting into a debate about whether to require wearing PFDs on club trips. Before a blowup developed that eventually split the club and paddlers in two, I was one of the two trip leaders doing most of the club's trips. I wore a PFD, the other one did not. I brought up the point you make above, leading by example, to get the guy to understand how people pick up on what leaders and experts do. He gave his argument about not needing it and being able to whip the PFD on in an instant if trouble hit, etc., and that he would just tell people they need to wear theirs. So I said "Well, how do we explain to newcomers that you are not wearing a PFD but I am?" He thought a minute and said "Oh, tell them you are unsure of your rescue skills and that's why you need to wear a PFD." Forgetting that my rescue skills were nearly the equal of his, imagine what participants on a trip would make of that! I failed to see why I had to throw ashes on my head because he didn't want to wear a PFD. Eventually the sxxt hit the fan locally and the split occured. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<<If an expert doesn't want to wear a PFD, that is their right. As for us mere mortals, we will be best served by following the conventional wisdom on this issue.>> So I'm foolish and I'm commenting here. I agree with Rick. What we learn at the beginning is that we do. We use seat belts because we did it for our drivers ed or parents bizillion years ago. I even learned not to drive barefooted then. Paddling with x, y, z gear is HOW I PADDLE. I learned this way and I'm comfortable this way. I have food, water, clothes, light, rope, excedrine, band-aids, even stuff we don't talk about BECAUSE I was told it was a good idea and I have it packed in my "other" bag. My First Aid Bag has some things I have in the other bag but critical things are always there. I forgot my pfd one day. I couldn't believe I didn't have it. I finally found someone with an extra, though it didn't fit me. I stuck it in the boat with me and paddled out. I felt so weird. I was not comfortable at all on that short trip. I knew I had many paddlers who were expert at getting falling paddlers but I was still VERY uncomfortable. It is all in what I'm used to. I expect we really all feel that way. There is a reason that we say, "do as I say, not as I do." and that is because we can't make others understand the variations of conditions we have to make decisions about. Start with the thing THEN decide you don't need it. You DO NEED IT TO START. When in doubt wear it. Not that hard to decide. Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Tomorrow afternoon I'll be doing some slalom training in flat water during what's likely to be a hot, humid afternoon. I'll be wearing not just a PFD, but also a helmet. I doubt if I'll really need either: I've *never* flipped on the river I'll be training on, not in ten years. And at least in flat water, I'm usually not clumsy enough to bang the gate poles into my head. And no doubt it's gonna get pretty hot out there, especially when I start doing 45-second interval sprints. But I'll wear them tomorrow and every day that I'm out there for two reasons: 1. They are both essential safety gear and I would never paddle without them. 2. There will be people passing by and watching. Some of them will (if I'm lucky) get the idea that even the good paddlers wear a PFD, so maaaaaaybeeeee the next time they're out on the same river in an alumnium canoe *they* should wear a PFD. If we're all lucky, one day this will help avert an accident. ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 8/22/00 10:40:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com writes: << When and if I get to a level when I can consider myself able to hold my own in these discussions, I'm still going to wear a PFD in 2 foot water, 10 feet from shore, when the water is like glass, BECAUSE A ROOKIE MAY BE WATCHING AND EMULATING MY EXAMPLE!!!!! >> I actually have a fairly long response in me, but I just don't have the time to put it in words right now. So let me just say, what about people like Duane Strosaker and Doug loyd and how about Ed Gilliet. These guys do some pretty intense solo trips that could easily send the wrong message to beginners. Should they stop? Whether or not one wears a pfd is, I feel, in the same category as whether or not it is OK to paddle alone. We teach the newbies assisted rescues and tell them that they should paddle in a group. But once they get some experience under their belts and learn just what they can and cannot do, they just might choose to go it alone. This is a personal decision that requires some common sense and consideration of one's skills, equipment and the conditions they will be paddling in. If, after such consideration they decide that paddling solo is OK, then I say go for it. If, after similar consideration it is decided that it is OK to paddle without a pfd on, then I say that's all right too. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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