At the risk of beating this pretty dead horse, one suggestion from my military experience. We would put the navigators (compass and pace people) behind the point and slack (second person who protects point) so they could better concentrate on their craft without getting shot or stepping on something nasty. Translating this to kayaking, put the compass person behind "point" who sets the pace for the slower paddlers of the group. Usually your compass person would be a more experienced paddler, who may very well be too fast for the others. Brian Blankinship *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Aaron, I appreciate your thoughts. I certainly found it easiest to see the right and left flank boats when they were in positions like what you suggest. The problem I see with your formation at night is that when we need to bunch up quickly to present a large mass of light the ends of the wing have to make a direction change and move a long way. We did have a problem with pulling together quickly with the diamond formation because the lead boats out paced the slower paddlers. >-----Original Message----- >From: Aaron Cunningham [mailto:acunning_at_seanet.com] >Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 2:01 PM >To: Dickson, Dana A. >Cc: 'PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net' >Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddling Formations > > >You run into similar problems when conducting dismounted >patrolling operations >in the military...the only visible thing are glowing"cat >eyes" on the backs of >helmets/caps, so from the front... > >I think that in this situation, where you need all around >visiblity like this >using a broader wedge might work better. Something like : > > ^ > ^ Direction of Travel > ^ > > XX > XX XX > XX XX > >where you can look over each shoulder and see the other people... >possibly using the flag idea from the visiblity thread, >with a chem lite >attached to the top would work better (one color for >leaders(s) and another for >everyone else, or possibly 2 chemlites attached to the hull >on either side of >the cockpit, arranged like a plane..one color on left, >another on right, to >confirm orientation... > >Obiously the broad wedge is situationally dependent, based >on terrain, etc... > >Just a thought... > >Aaron *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Possibly, keeping the diamod formation, but with the "light flags" then?...it would let you keep a compact formation, which would make the group visiblity less of a problem, and still let you see them since the "flags" would raise the lights... Hmmm...more thought required... :) In a bigger formation, what about doing what herd animals do...move the slower/less powerful/less experienced kayakers to the center of the diamond, and have the points of the diamond "rove" more, since they woudl (in theory) be more powerful paddlers? Aaron "Dickson, Dana A." wrote: > Aaron, > > I appreciate your thoughts. I certainly found it easiest to see the right > and left flank boats when they were in positions like what you suggest. The > problem I see with your formation at night is that when we need to bunch up > quickly to present a large mass of light the ends of the wing have to make a > direction change and move a long way. We did have a problem with pulling > together quickly with the diamond formation because the lead boats out paced > the slower paddlers. > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Aaron Cunningham [mailto:acunning_at_seanet.com] > >Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 2:01 PM > >To: Dickson, Dana A. > >Cc: 'PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net' > >Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddling Formations > > > > > >You run into similar problems when conducting dismounted > >patrolling operations > >in the military...the only visible thing are glowing"cat > >eyes" on the backs of > >helmets/caps, so from the front... > > > >I think that in this situation, where you need all around > >visiblity like this > >using a broader wedge might work better. Something like : > > > > ^ > > ^ Direction of Travel > > ^ > > > > XX > > XX XX > > XX XX > > > >where you can look over each shoulder and see the other people... > >possibly using the flag idea from the visiblity thread, > >with a chem lite > >attached to the top would work better (one color for > >leaders(s) and another for > >everyone else, or possibly 2 chemlites attached to the hull > >on either side of > >the cockpit, arranged like a plane..one color on left, > >another on right, to > >confirm orientation... > > > >Obiously the broad wedge is situationally dependent, based > >on terrain, etc... > > > >Just a thought... > > > >Aaron > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Aaron said: > > ^ > ^ Direction of Travel > ^ > > XX > XX XX > XX XX > and Dana replied: X X XX XX XX X and Mark added: ^ | ^ v | ^ v | ^ Wind direction if not head on or v | <------------ v directly behind. ^ | ^ v | ^ v | ^ v | v etc... I'm glad I paddle mostly solo, and when I'm with a group, it's never more than three or four. I can certainly see the need for larger groups to keep themselves more or less organized and keeping track of each other, but I still can't get my mind around the idea of paddling with such a large group - especially in a wilderness setting. It just wouldn't be *wilderness* anymore. I also agree with Ralph's comment, that a bit of wind and current could seriously disrupt a nice neat formation, and perhaps *spitting distance* would be a more practical solution, especially at night. Another thing... No matter how organized and well planned various formations and potential rescue scenarios are, a sudden severe storm could render each person essentially *on their own* - no matter the size and experience of the group. Though good planning, careful listening to weather forecasts, and a personal sense of weather shifts can reduce the risk of such a situation, these things do happen, because weather doesn't always cooperate with forecasts. My favorite formation: ^ <------ direction of boaty X <------ Whale friend X <----- me Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Dana, SK magazine had a article that suggested a formation called the "Windward Stager" ^ | ^ v | ^ v | ^ Wind direction if not head on or v | <------------ v directly behind. ^ | ^ v | ^ v | ^ v | v The point was to never have to turn your head more than 90 deg to see the front of the next boat in line. If you had too turn more than 90, then you called for the kayaks ahead to slow down (slow down not stop since only a small change is needed). If you are using good torso rotation, you usually catch a glimpse of the trailing kayak on ever other stroke. The width of separation has to be determined by the conditions. The rougher the conditions the more room you have to allow for boat wandering in order to prevent collision. The trailing boats were always on the windward side so that if you turned to look at a trailing boat you would be looking in the direction of on-comming waves in case some larger or breaking wave unexpectedly appeared. The formation also gives you not only forward/backward control but gives side to side control between the leader and the sweep. If you have a small group or if spreading out is not a problem you can use just one line. For larger groups (where you may want multiple leaders in case of separation) or where you need to maintain tighter formations (near channels or boat lanes) the double line formation I drew above can be used. I have used this on a couple of trips where we were following poorly marked channels used by fishing boats. It made it easy to paddle near the channel edge where we still had good water depth, but allowed the sweep to make sure that no one wandered out into the channel. Usually they noticed right away if they were getting out of line. You could actually carrry on conversations with both the persons in front and in back of you without too much effort and you felt less isolated than the single file formations. Your diamond formation could work in a very similar way. The point to make is that the front of each trailing kayak should be kept about even with the cockpit of the kayak just ahead. If you can get this thought into all the paddler's minds, I think you are more likely to get fast paddlers to slow down their pace rather than getting into the "paddle-stop for catch up - paddle" mode that many faster paddlers adopt. Of course, the faster guys/gals sometimes get into a "paddle-paddle-leave them behind" mode and no formation can help that attitude. Mark J. Arnold MJAkayaker_at_aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What all due respect to working out various formations, my experience is that of the old military axiom about "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy." In calm conditions you can hold those lines and diamond shape formations. But if strong wind (the enemy) hits from any direction (forget about outright storm conditions) the group will get scattered in a pattern reflecting the skills/strength of the paddlers and the shape of their hulls. In a strong side wind or current, some boats can run a straight course, others won't be able to keep that course line and wind up either downwind or upwind. It is really hard to keep a formation under such conditions unless the better paddlers slow down and let themselves drift to where the main body of boats is being driven and slowly coax and coach them toward where they want to go. (I recently saw a piece on how the word "aloof" came about meaning. Seems it comes from Dutch word for windward; without getting into all the history, a ship of a fleet that was better at going to windward would draw away from the fleet and be considered aloof, eventually meaning someone who stands apart. Happens to kayaks too when hit with sidewinds). The original question had to do with night paddling formations and groupings. Stay spitting distance close. Make certain that specific boats stay in specific spots. For example, if using headlamps, have two rear boats shining their headlamps backwards, two side paddlers on each side shining their headlamps sideways outward from the group. Two or so lead paddlers shining headlamps forward. Everyone have some sort of 360 degree light like the "C" Light from ACR or the small conical flare lights from Princeton=Tec. The head lamp direction avoids blinding any one in the group and makes the tight group seem as a moving lit-up party boat. If wind hits, it is up to the strongest/better paddlers to keep the group together by voluntarily staying with the poor technique paddlers who can't go straight and coaxing them along. It is hard at night. One of the reasons why group night paddling is dangerous in busy waters. Two or three kayaks, ok; more than that, lots of luck. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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