Re: [Paddlewise] What about the ACA (was Florida Reunion)

Bob Volin wrote:

> From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_telus.net>
> <SNIP> how does an all BCU development weekend help Americans
> > when the dominant system will one day be the ACA. Forgive me my
> > ignorance of US paddling politics. I do not know a lot about what goes
> > on down there, and I _do_ know that the BCU stuff is top notch, but
> > where will this fit in with those wanting to move through the instructor
> > levels as the country moves toward a national program?
>
> As far as I know, neither the Democrats nor the Republicans, nor even Ralph
> or Pat have proposed national legislation espousing either BCU or ACA
> training programs.  Why in the world would anyone want to develop a
> "dominant" or "national" system?

There seems to be some misunderstanding with respect to both the context of my
original question and the terminology. This isn't directed specifically at you
Bob, so don't take this as a rebuttal, but more of a clarification. By
"national" I simply meant that the organization claims to be "American" right
in its title, and would imply a cross-state, widely recognized organization. By
"dominant", I simply meant that the infrastructure is based solely in the USA,
allowing it to build a rather large "pyramid" base as it grows with time and
acceptance. It was not meant as qualitative, but as quantitative.

>
>
> We can ignore the wider connotations of the words "American" and "British,"
> since neither program has anything to do with nationality, and both have
> everything to do with paddling anywhere on the globe.

Yes you can, for the most part. However, the BCU would appear to still have its
roots with the UK, and as one climbs the BCU ladder abroad from the UK, it gets
expensive to keep up with the yearly cost of membership. The coaching
periodical is all British based, and part of the membership cost. One needs to
fly, boat, or otherwise travel back to the UK in order to attain the higher
coaching levels, and indeed the "examiner" status may indeed be rather costly
and time consuming traveling back and fort to the UK to upgrade. This may even
be true for Star 5 status. You also need a good assembly of top BCU coaches in
a single space to gain certain award opportunities.

I have it on good word that the BCU executive is not too interested in pushing
the development of non-native coaching awards, but does encourage and want to
help regions around the world develop their own schemes based on the BCU model,
and indeed desires to foster as much real support and blessing as it can at the
lower paddling and coaching award levels. I have been told by top BCU coaches
that they are not as keen to foist BCU training and awards at the higher levels
where a nationally recognized system is in place or is being developed.

>
>
> Both the ACA and BCU programs are (at least conceptually, and usually in
> practice) high quality, well thought-out systems for training paddling
> skills and safety.  As long as that is true, there is room for both.  We
> stand to benefit if both programs thrive.  Institutions that become
> "dominant" tend to stagnate.
>

Of course :-)

>
>     Cheers (and Here Here)
>         Bob

Joan then said:

<<<Doug, why do you say that ACA will be the dominant system?  True, there
are currently more ACA venues than BCU in the US, but BCU is extending.
I don't foresee one system or the other becoming dominant.>>> <snip>

Yes, the BCU is extending itself, but as suggested above, how far can it go for
those wanting to pursue a higher mandate, given the somewhat practical
limitations. We had a number of highly skilled paddlers here in BC give up on
the BCU, due to the limitations and expense of pursuing the system further, and
so switched to the CRCA (Canadian Recreational Canoe Association), which is a
"national" (well, they would like to be) organization somewhat akin to the ACA.
The other big issue was insurance, and this was not available to instructors
outside of the UK,  even ones loyal to the BCU. With the CRCA, it is. I'm not
sure about the ACA.

So, as you can see, my original post was not about polemics or the approbation
of one organization over the other. I was simply wondering why the ACA wasn't
more desirable in the long run to you folks down there, though I suppose for
most of the targeted levels of certification and skills development, the BCU is
more than sufficient at this time (and if anything like I suspect, may have
more of a seamanship component, which is what ultimately benefits the kayak
mariner. NB I don't know how the two actually compare in terms of seamanship
skills development, I just know the BCU tends to be a bit more rigorous than
what is commonly believed as one ascends the ladder - I've been told).

And finally, Robert said:

<<<Doug:  What about yourself?  Your personal standards, limits and competence?

All won through ACA or through a number of people, including "self learning"
through miles of paddling and challenging oneself in various conditions and
situations?>>>

Initial training was on the river in a river kayak, including some canoe skill
development. Derek H did some of the first North American training out here, on
the west coast. It was light-years ahead of what everyone else was doing, and
was "rudder free" and taught us dynamic boat handling skills, obviating the
need for rudders. While it was only basic by BCU standards, it taught me the
overwhelming desirability for new paddlers to engage in learning good
rudimentary skills (the old house built on sand vs the house built on solid
rock analogy). The rest was self learning, etc. Seamanship comes mostly with
experience (though that is what was most widely taught at the beginning of the
1980's prior to the British invasion, and the Canadian retailers/instructors
slowly came up to speed on the hard skills issue, but I do feel there needs to
be much more emphasis on this aspect again, and that is why I dropped out of
further involvement with the agencies teaching here in BC, as hard skills
seemed to be the only emphasis).

<<<As someone on this list reminded me in an earlier post, it's all paper.
Politics aside, training is about competence more than anything; and second,
being able to work with people.  What about Gronseth's Kayak Academy?
Gronseth is not associated with either ACA or BCU, but I have found him to
be one of the most competent instructors I have come across.  What he can do
for his students in his 5 day course, I would challenge anyone or any agency
to compare with. I was absolutely amazed what he did for me.>>>

It all depends what you want. Some folks like a structured, germane scheme with
national or international sanction. Others just want the training, and the best
they can get.

<<<I say choose the instructor who can take you to a greater level rather than
relying on the agency.>>>

And this is where we need choice, and it should also include affordable options
for the economically challenged. I know I do my seminars for free, but I need
my club to back me up for insurance. I also recognize, as has been mentioned on
PW before, BCU and ACA schemes help weed out poor instructors. This is why I'm
careful not to heap too much derision on paddling organizations.

<<<With training programs such as presented by Sweetwater, the BCU is sure to
spread in influence.  While not all BCU coaches are worth either the money
or the time, and some you will discover you wish you had never heard of...
but this is true in any agency, I can speak highly of the BCU courses I had
with Sweetwater and at Nigel Dennis' ASSC in Wales.>>>

Yes, that is good. You also have, it would appear, the money to pour out the
honey :-). I can only afford margarine, but there is no fee for time on the
sea.

<<<I suggest not wedding oneself to any particular agency but to seek out the
best instructors you can find.  I'd be delighted to learn from you Doug
Lloyd; I've learned a good bit just from your postings here on Paddlewise.
Perhaps we could paddle together someday before I get too old and decrepit
to do so.>>>

You mean before _I_ get too old and decrepit. Actually, I bet just about
everyone on PW could teach each other a thing or two, as we all have different
ways of doing things, different camping practices, different equipment
preferences, different insights into the behavior and predictability of the
ocean environment, etc., etc. I once was on a trip with some rookies who
obviously had been exposed to a bit of teaching from some unknown sources to me
-- either at symposiums or paddlefeasts, or perhaps on a short paddle with
someone who showed them a few new tricks. Anyway, we were engaging in one of my
favorite activities, which is comparing how each boat behaved in a given wind
and wave condition. For some reason, each of us kept veering towards each
other, and we would all pile into each other. Very comical, and I'm sure you
know what I mean. I was amazed at the three different approaches each person
showed, with regard to their use of paddle to regain course and spacing -- once
they all realized to shut up and stop banging into each other. Two of the
maneuvers I had never seen before, and were amazingly effective. Now wouldn't
that be neat, a mass PW paddle where we all learned from each other, on the
water, rather than from in front of these life depleting computers that seem to
rule our lives. But, PW is still the approachable reality, and so I can't
unsubscribe, even if it is the bland leading the bland, sometimes.

BC'in Ya
Doug Lloyd (whose wife is the one who wants me off PW, but I've agreed to play
with the kids and eat supper first, before opening PW after work immediately
:-)  )



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