[I'm new to this list, I'll give a proper introduction later.] My chief paddling companion is my wife, who is barely five feet tall. She also lacks wide hips and finds most boats not for her size. I have had her try a few fiberglass hulls, such as the Pacific Water Sports Wigeon, and from what I've heard the Mariner Elan would be a good fit as well, but I've had my mind set on getting a folding boat for various reasons. I attended the West Coast Sea Kayak Symposium with the hope of trying out some Feathercraft folding kayaks, but was fairly disappointed that even the K-Light was still a bit too big. The cockpit seemed to clear her elbows well enough but the foot pedals did not allow her to brace her knees near the cockpit of the boat too well. Having seen what people have done with foam and pads to create a proper fit was encouraging. It seemed to me adding velcro strips for removable hip pads might be a sufficient solution. It seems knee pads that weren't glued wouldn't be very strong. It seems like it'd be pretty much impossible to have her fit well in a kayak 25" wide like the K-Light, without having her bend her knees a whole lot. How much should a kayaker bend his knees? I usually have little more than a 20 degree bend, since my legs are quite long. One of the Feathercraft people said to just turn the foot brace around and it'd be okay, like they were afraid they really didn't have a boat for her size. And then I wonder if I should just give up on the whole idea and get a fiberglass boat and find a place to store it. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
on 9/19/00 12:41 AM, elias.ross_at_software.com at elias.ross_at_software.com wrote: snip > I attended the West Coast Sea Kayak Symposium with the hope of trying > out some Feathercraft folding kayaks, but was fairly disappointed that > even the K-Light was still a bit too big. The cockpit seemed to clear > her elbows well enough but the foot pedals did not allow her to brace > her knees near the cockpit of the boat too well. Having seen what > people have done with foam and pads to create a proper fit was > encouraging. It seemed to me adding velcro strips for removable hip > pads might be a sufficient solution. It seems knee pads that weren't > glued wouldn't be very strong. > > It seems like it'd be pretty much impossible to have her fit well in a > kayak 25" wide like the K-Light, without having her bend her knees a > whole lot. How much should a kayaker bend his knees? I usually have > little more than a 20 degree bend, since my legs are quite long. One of > the Feathercraft people said to just turn the foot brace around and it'd > be okay, like they were afraid they really didn't have a boat for her > size Was there a reason you did not try the demo Khatsalano? It is 22 inches (56 cm) wide and 11.5 inches deep (29 cm). It had their new inflatable hip pads. I got in it on Sunday, blew up the hip pads and had a instant, custom fit. It was very comfortable! I've never been in a sea kayak "right out of the factory" that had such a nice fit. There were no knee braces but I did not need any because my knees were against the skin and the cockpit tube came across my thighs. My knees and thighs were very comfortable. With this instant, "custom" fit, I was easily rolling the kayak and was even rolling it without a paddle (hand rolls). I can't answer your question about the foot rests but I'm sure you could find a way to customize the foot rests for her. I'm 5' 9" so there was no problem for me. Try contacting Doug Simpson, the owner, through their web site (www.feathercraft.com, email at info_at_feathercraft.com) and I bet he will have a answer for you. I met him at the symposium and talked to him several times. Very nice and very helpful. Rex Roberton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rex Roberton wrote: > > on 9/19/00 12:41 AM, elias.ross_at_software.com at elias.ross_at_software.com > wrote: > > snip > > I attended the West Coast Sea Kayak Symposium with the hope of trying > > out some Feathercraft folding kayaks, but was fairly disappointed that > > even the K-Light was still a bit too big. The cockpit seemed to clear > > her elbows well enough but the foot pedals did not allow her to brace > > her knees near the cockpit of the boat too well. Having seen what > > people have done with foam and pads to create a proper fit was > > encouraging. It seemed to me adding velcro strips for removable hip > > pads might be a sufficient solution. It seems knee pads that weren't > > glued wouldn't be very strong. Since sometime in the 1920s, folding kayaks have occasionally been outfitted with an assortment of devices to snug in on either the hips, knees/thighs, or both. I have seen illustrations of these from that earlier period. In more recent years, individuals have adapted their own using pads from Banshee and other companies or devising their own. And as pointed out below, Feathercraft has a new device just being introduced now that should fit all the models as far as I can tell (I am having one shipped to me soon for a boat review). BTW, I have seen smaller people than your wife fit snuggly enough in the K-Light. It always amazes me how two people of the same size can have a totally different concept of looseness and tightness in the same boat. > > cm) wide and 11.5 inches deep (29 cm). It had their new inflatable hip > pads. I got in it on Sunday, blew up the hip pads and had a instant, custom > fit. It was very comfortable! I've never been in a sea kayak "right out of > the factory" that had such a nice fit. There were no knee braces but I did > not need any because my knees were against the skin and the cockpit tube > came across my thighs. My knees and thighs were very comfortable. With > this instant, "custom" fit, I was easily rolling the kayak and was even > rolling it without a paddle (hand rolls). This is that new device. This insight from Rex also points out something that people are unaware of...you can very effectively achieve knee bracing by digging your knees into the deck material which will give a little and provide an indentation for your knees. > > I can't answer your question about the foot rests but I'm sure you could > find a way to customize the foot rests for her. Everything can be fixed and modified in a folding kayak. If you enter the realm of folding kayaks, you will find a world of innovation and modification. We folding kayakers are doing it all the time and the ideas and tips raised are the grist for my newsletter's mill. best, ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
on 9/19/00 12:41 AM, elias.ross_at_software.com at elias.ross_at_software.com wrote: snip > I attended the West Coast Sea Kayak Symposium with the hope of trying > out some Feathercraft folding kayaks, but was fairly disappointed that > even the K-Light was still a bit too big. The cockpit seemed to clear > her elbows well enough but the foot pedals did not allow her to brace > her knees near the cockpit of the boat too well. <snip> Rex Roberton <rexrob_at_mac.com> asked: >>Was there a reason you did not try the demo Khatsalano? << I'm going to be a buttinski and suggest a few reasons because they might not be obvious from a test paddle of any kayak in calm conditions. But first, one obvious reason not to try it might be the huge price difference. You wouldn't dare try it, you just might like it. Second there is the issue of weight, advantage K-light. For a paddler as small as described (under 5 feet) the Khatsalano with its 17-4 length and relatively stiff tracking is going to need a fairly strong paddler to turn it in a strong wind. I don't mean someone strong for her size I mean ultimate strength. She will be arm wrestling the wind and offering the wind a much longer lever arm to use against her. Further, with a stiffer tracking kayak (that can't be turned as quickly in the troughs before the bow clears the crest and again faces the full strength of the wind) you will essentially be allowing the wind to get a really good grip on you. When you are protected somewhat from the wind in a trough, if you can't make up more than the angle you lost to the wind at the crest of the last wave crest then a turn just isn't going to happen. The shorter more maneuverable K-light has a big edge here especially for a smaller, lighter paddler (or any one of more limited arm wrestling ability). It is not strength to weight ratio that counts here it is ultimate strength. The lighter paddler is at the further disadvantage of floating higher out of the water and therefore exposing more of the kayak to the wind. Gear weight in the kayak helps a lot here as the mass in the ends keeps the kayak from swinging around so quickly at the wave crest. The K-light cuts its wetted surface (friction) by being shorter and as Ralph pointed out, its speed can surprise a lot of kayakers, especially those saddled by the mistaken, but common, belief that longer is always faster (see FAQ's on our website for more details on this). The Khats cuts its wetted surface by being narrower so my guess is drag below 4 knots is probably pretty even between the two. Total useable gear storage space is about the same in the two kayaks as well so there is no advantage to either there. So the differences are price, weight, cockpit fit and handling in strong winds. The Khats's lower cockpit rim (same size as K-light's rim) and bridge truss style stiffening tubes/thighbraces does give a better fit to a smaller paddler but I'm sure much can be done to improve the fit on the K-light (if it really needs to be improved--which I'm not so sure of-- I'll bet that after owning a K-light for a while you will find it doesn't need as much modification as you think it does now). My advice is to get a K-light while you still can. The Kahuna promises to be the kayak that a lot of folks are looking for. More capacity/reasonable price and better suited in reserve buoyancy for heavier paddlers. I think Feathercraft is making a mistake to discontinue the K-light though. The Kahuna will cut into the K-light's market seriously for sure, but the K-light will still likely be the better choice for smaller paddlers. My advice would be to direct it more at smaller paddlers by shortening the footpads and narrowing up and possibly lowering the cockpit slightly. I vote to keep the K-light in the line and will tell that to Feathercraft the next time I talk to someone there. I threw out my back testing/lifting heavy stiff tracking kayaks on Saturday so didn't get to try the Kahuna on Sunday at the Symposium along with many others I wanted to try. Did you try the Sterns 1K-116 inflatable at $299. I tried many little recreational hardshell kayaks at the symposium on Saturday and was mostly disappointed. I was impressed by the Sterns inflatable, probably partly because it paddled way better than I had expected and had a comfortable "seat" (and partly because I was so disappointed in most of the other sub 12 foot kayaks I tested). Now if Sterns would get rid of the stupid fingernail snagging grab loops they recently added to the front of the once wonderfully smooth rub pad that protected my arms from the abrasive nylon on the rest of the tubes I'd be happier still. As it is I guess I could cut the grab loops away, the kayak is so light they really aren't needed (I heard they were added so that folks would use them rather than try to pick up the boat using the edge of the zippered spraydeck. My advice is beef that up with the same husky webbing used for the finger snagger handles and let them use it. $299 and packs down to about a third the volume of a K-light. Seems perfect for that plane trip taken for other reasons (than camping out of a kayak), but where you have a little time in a new local to explore a few of the local waterways. I suggested to Chris Cunningham that he ought to try it out. He even Eskimo rolled it. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze wrote: > The K-light cuts its wetted surface (friction) by being shorter and as Ralph > pointed out, its speed can surprise a lot of kayakers, especially those > saddled by the mistaken, but common, belief that longer is always faster > (see FAQ's on our website for more details on this). I am glad you make this same point. Paddlers are lemmings in how much they follow some general concept like the one about length or for that matter the concept of width. The K-Light is as fast as many longer boats except perhaps at top speeds, but who can paddle at top speed all the time? The K-Light has the beauty of paddling almost effortlessly at a cruising speed of around 4 knots and has lots of glide between strokes. I do an energy conserving stroke (I am over 60 and not in the best of shape) in which I take a longer more powerful stroke with each paddle dip with a split second rest before the next dip. So if you see me paddling alongside another paddler, he is stroking much more than I am. The K-Light allows that because of its great glide between strokes. It is also relatively easy to get it up to speed as it is so light and agile with little inertia to overcome. \ Oh the point about width. Many of the folding kayaks are often some 4 inches wider than hardshells. But that is up high at the deck seem level where the sponsons flare out. If you look at the cross section that is actually being pushed through the water it is significantly narrower. If you get a folding kayak in which you don't sink it to the point that its sponsons are constantly in contact with the water, you have less to push through the water. > My advice is to get a K-light while you still can. The Kahuna promises to be > the kayak that a lot of folks are looking for. More capacity/reasonable > price and better suited in reserve buoyancy for heavier paddlers. I think > Feathercraft is making a mistake to discontinue the K-light though. The > Kahuna will cut into the K-light's market seriously for sure, but the > K-light will still likely be the better choice for smaller paddlers. My > advice would be to direct it more at smaller paddlers by shortening the > footpads and narrowing up and possibly lowering the cockpit slightly. I vote > to keep the K-light in the line and will tell that to Feathercraft the next > time I talk to someone there. I too am disappointed to see that the K-Light is being discontinued. For those with K-Lights that they wish to sell, the resale value should go up quite a bit. They will offer a premium package for some paddlers. I have not talked with Feathercraft about this much but I think what happened is that in effect they changed the model so much that it really needed a new name. The same has happened all along with the company's K-1. It has borne that name since the early 1980s but it has radically changed, so much that it could have easily been called the Granville (for the island in Vancouver where the factory is located) or anything else. At one point, it was not much longer than the new Kahuna (Kahuna 14 ft 9 in; the 1980s K-1 without coaming around 15 feet and a couple of inches) Even in 1998, the company changed the K-1 so much (length earlier had creeped up to 15 ft 10 in and then with the latest change to 16.5 feet; but the frame also was completely overhauled and the bow made to look like that on the Khats with a fine entry point) that in my review I stated that they probably should have changed the name because it was now a different boat. In a sense Feathercraft may just be wanting to recognize that the Kahuna is a K-Light so radically changed (significant length addition plus sharper bow, plus a significant frame change) that it is a new model. Matt mentioned something about Feathercraft should perhaps lower the cockpit rim on the K-Light and continue to sell it for smaller paddlers. In there lies a probably for Feathercraft. The K-Light/Kahuna are the only model(s) produced by the company that has injection molded crossribs (of polycarbonate) instead of being cut by machine individually from large slabs of polyethylene. The costs of the molds and machinery is so great that the Kahuna will have the exact same 4 injection molded crossribs as the K-Light. Feathercraft simply could not justify now reducing the cockpit height on the K-Light (which would require lowering the height of crossribs #2 and #3). BTW, the Kahuna looks terrific. Elongating the K-Light by two feet (12 ft 10 inches to 14 feet 9 inches) has made the boat look sleeker especially with its more narrow sharp and slightly uplifted bow. Changing only $80 more is also a plus. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I bought the Khats this spring and at 5'3" am still struggling to get a good tight fit in it. The foot pegs were positioned on the reinforcement bars but Feathercraft is going to do a retrofit for me to put them back on the chines. Without getting this correction, it's pretty difficult to brace properly. (I'm going to check with Feathercraft on those new hip pads.) I had tried various things to get a tight fit -- moving my seat up or would have to sit in an almost yoga position to get my thighs to be touching the sides of the boat which was a tad bit uncomfortable after awhile, even for an ex-gymnast. I'd say for someone 5', it will probably be way too big. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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