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From: Joe Flannery <jflannery_at_hotmail.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Paddling Sports in the Olympics
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:53:58 GMT
I think that in the Olympics they should have a real course and not a man 
made course for the kayaking.


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From: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddling Sports in the Olympics
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:45:10 -0700
----------- Original Message -----------

From: jflannery_at_hotmail.com
Date:  Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:53:58 GMT
Subject:  [Paddlewise] Paddling Sports in the Olympics

>>I think that in the Olympics they should have a real course and not 
a man made course for the kayaking.<<

Though I would like to agree with your basic sentiment, as it would 
be nice to have these things in a natural setting (including the 
rowing events as well), there's this to consider...

What about all the spectators, camera crews, officials, etc.?  In a 
natural setting, all these people with all their equipment (and 
trash) could really make a mess of a nice place.

For what the Olympics are - including the media and spectator circus 
that surround all the events - I do see some sense in the artificial 
venues.  Certainly not very aesthetically pleasing, and of course 
they're "contrived", but at least the true natural wonders aren't 
being trampled to death.

Melissa






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From: Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_home.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddling Sports in the Olympics
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:53:27 -0400
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Melissa Reese" <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net>


> ----------- Original Message -----------
> 
> From: jflannery_at_hotmail.com
> Date:  Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:53:58 GMT
> Subject:  [Paddlewise] Paddling Sports in the Olympics
> 
> >>I think that in the Olympics they should have a real course and not 
> a man made course for the kayaking.<<
> 
> Though I would like to agree with your basic sentiment, as it would 
> be nice to have these things in a natural setting (including the 
> rowing events as well), there's this to consider...
> 
> What about all the spectators, camera crews, officials, etc.?  In a 
> natural setting, all these people with all their equipment (and 
> trash) could really make a mess of a nice place.

I've been thinking of the same recently with respect to the 2008 
Olympic bid by Toronto.  They announced the WW and flat water 
venues and I went "Whaaa?".  The WW is at Twelve Mile Creek in
St Catherines - not a place noted for its spectacular WW.  Why 
not the Gull River at Minden (a world-class, natural location),
MKC on the Madawaska or the Ottawa river.  Twelve Mile Creek will
be a man-made course in an existing creek.  

The flat water course is in a relatively unused area of the Toronto
Harbour.  I went paddling through it a few weeks ago and wasn't too
impressed.  Why not the traditional flat water racing venues - Toronto
Islands or the Humber bay area where the rowing clubs are?

Yesterday I paddled through the old rowing course in Toronto Islands.
One side is in a "natural" state - left alone as a wetlands and allowed
to grow back into its former state.  The other side is lined with _big_ 
old (probably older than the city) trees - very majestic looking.  The 
thought of them ripping up that area to allow for the spectators and
cameras makes me cringe.  Same with the Gull River at Minden - it's
too nice to ruin with the crowds.

So it makes sense to create an environment that is made for the sport 
if one isn't readily available.  

Mike

PS: I'm opposed to the Olympics in Toronto as they are proposed.  I lived
through the mess in Montreal in 1976 and know first hand the difference 
between what you see on TV, what the politicians and hangers-on say and
reality.  The indoor kayak and rowing facilities that were constructed
for the teams to train in were converted to warehousing after the games.
A friend of mine, helping to run the McGill rowing club, was almost in 
tears as the city auctioned off the kayaks and rowing sculls to affluent
Ivy League colleges to the south, while Canadian universities, short 
of cash, got nothing.  All payed for by the Canadian (mostly Montreal)
taxpayers (latest word is the debts will be retired in two more years!)
Canadian athletes have had the short end of it for a long time.  It
shows in Sydney - 1 gold, 1 silver several bronze.  The Aussies, an
amateur sports crazed country, with a population 2/3rds of Canada's
is second only to the well financed and very determined US team in
medals count.  Return the summer olympics to Greece with a _permanent_
installation, find a suitable spot for the winter olympics and stop
the money, greed and politics surrounding the Olympics.

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From: Rich Kulawiec <rsk_at_gsp.org>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddling Sports in the Olympics
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:23:36 -0400
On Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 09:53:27PM -0400, Michael Daly wrote:
> I've been thinking of the same recently with respect to the 2008 
> Olympic bid by Toronto.  They announced the WW and flat water 
> venues and I went "Whaaa?".  The WW is at Twelve Mile Creek in
> St Catherines - not a place noted for its spectacular WW.  Why 
> not the Gull River at Minden (a world-class, natural location),
> MKC on the Madawaska or the Ottawa river.  Twelve Mile Creek will
> be a man-made course in an existing creek.  

I've paddled the Madawaska at MKC and the Gull at Minden -- both are
beautiful places, and Minden (which has hosted a World Cup or two)
would be terrific for the whitewater race...except, as you point out,
that the wonderful preserve surrounding it would probably be destroyed.
(And Madawaska is also far too pretty to survive the invasion of the
games.)

> The Aussies, an amateur sports crazed country [...]

And there you've hit the mark.  Unfortunately, here in the US, gifted,
hard-working, role-model amateur athletes are ignored while lazy,
greedy, and sleazy professional athletes are glamourized at every
available opportunity.  As a result, the press here focuses on the
idiots on the "Dream Team III" while neglecting the true amateur athletes
competing in wrestling and fencing and water polo and other sports.
This is true not only in re Olympic coverage but at all other times
as well: and that, combined with an insane "winners/losers" mentality
that is also beaten into the masses' heads at every available opportunity
("The USA leads in medal count...") makes us, frankly, a nation of very
poor losers and graceless winners (with some notable and welcome exceptions).

> Return the summer olympics to Greece with a _permanent_
> installation, find a suitable spot for the winter olympics and stop
> the money, greed and politics surrounding the Olympics.

I'd certainly be all for that.  The IOC is horribly tainted by
corruption and is clearly running the games to maximize their
profit and their perks, with total open disregard for the true
ideals of Olympics competition.  Their greedpig-motivated actions
in censoring all coverage of the games via the web (except of
course for their lapdogs at NBC) is as predictable as it is selfish.
It's time to throw out the entire lot of them, and their outrageous
mismanagement of the games (what in the HELL is professional tennis
doing in the Olympics?), return it to its roots as a *strictly* amateur
competition with as broad a base of participation from around the
world as can possibly be attained.

---Rsk
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From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddling Sports in the Olympics
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:38:53
At 09:53 PM 9/25/00 -0400, Michael Daly wrote:

>Return the summer olympics to Greece with a _permanent_
>installation, find a suitable spot for the winter olympics and stop
>the money, greed and politics surrounding the Olympics.

(off topic, but what the heck)

While you're at it, how about taking the games away from the media and
giving them back to the athletes? I've had it to here with the Olympics,
and still have another week to put up with.

-- Wes

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From: Rich Kulawiec <rsk_at_gsp.org>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddling Sports in the Olympics
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:53:41 -0400
On Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 04:53:58PM +0000, Joe Flannery wrote:
> I think that in the Olympics they should have a real course and not a man 
> made course for the kayaking.

That'd be great, but coming up with one which is (a) near enough to the
main venue for the Games (b) of sufficient difficulty but (c) without
life-threatening hazards while (d) having adequate infrastructure
(roads, parking, spectator seating, etc.) and (e) controllable flow
is a tough task.  In 1996, whitewater slalom was held on the Ocoee,
a couple of hours from Atlanta -- and it worked (I was there) with
the only real problem being the gouging of spectators by food/drink
vendors.  But not every site is so lucky, and in the case of Sydney,
they responded by building a course that is considered to be one
of the premier sites in the world.

---Rsk
Rich Kulawiec
rsk_at_gsp.org


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