Not to question the experts . . . but it is not impossible to perform a cowboy self rescue with an ocean cockpit boat, it is just kind of tricky. I have done it (and flubbed it) several times in my Guillemot Coastal. I taught myself before reading on this list that it was impossible. When it works, it requires you to drop your legs into the cockpit first with your butt still balanced on the rear deck. Use a paddle brace while dropping your legs in place. Then slide your butt forward while performing a one-armed reverse sweeping brace with your paddle for balance. Its the same motion as entering the boat from a dock, but using the brace for support instead of the dock. If it works, your butt plops down into the seat just right, before you reach the end of your sweep. IF it doesnt work, you end up capsized again and start all over. I agree that this is not much to rely on in rough water (though if you time your sliding butt drop sweep to the waves just right it might work in a moderate sea). But the cowboy rescue does come in handy when you are practising and testing the limits of your rolls and have to do a wet exit in calm conditions. Saves the trouble of mounting the paddle float and stowing it again. --Karl Coplan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 02:10 PM 9/7/00 -0400, Coplan, Karl wrote: >Not to question the experts . . . but it is not impossible to perform a >cowboy self rescue with an ocean cockpit boat, it is just kind of tricky. I >have done it (and flubbed it) several times in my Guillemot Coastal. I >taught myself before reading on this list that it was impossible. >When it works, it requires you to drop your legs into the cockpit first with >your butt still balanced on the rear deck. Use a paddle brace while >dropping your legs in place. Then slide your butt forward while performing >a one-armed reverse sweeping brace with your paddle for balance. Its the >same motion as entering the boat from a dock, but using the brace for >support instead of the dock. > >If it works, your butt plops down into the seat just right, before you reach >the end of your sweep. IF it doesnt work, you end up capsized again and >start all over. See that's what I have a problem with. The chances of capsizing and having to start over are just too great to rely on a cowboy reentry as a reentry technique. I just don't see the point of practicing a technique which has such a high degree of failure, except as a balance exercise. > >I agree that this is not much to rely on in rough water (though if you time >your sliding butt drop sweep to the waves just right it might work in a >moderate sea). But the cowboy rescue does come in handy when you are >practising and testing the limits of your rolls and have to do a wet exit in >calm conditions. Saves the trouble of mounting the paddle float and stowing >it again. I agree that's it's a fun and quick way to get back in when practicing under controlled conditions, but I would hesitate to characterize it as a self *rescue* technique. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "John Fereira" <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> > > I agree that's it's a fun and quick way to get back in when practicing under > controlled conditions, but I would hesitate to characterize it as a self > *rescue* technique. Here's my question then. How do you get into an ocean cockpit under normal conditions? Do you always use your paddle held behind the cockpit, braced on something solid? I've been told that some BCU instructors will flunk you if you use your paddle to enter a kayak. The instructor who told me that advised me to learn to enter a floating kayak without any aid - to develop the balance to do that. The easiest way is a cowboy entry from a standing position (ie. stradle the kayak, sit and enter.) Trying that with an ocean kayak means sitting on the rear deck and getting your feet in first, then sliding in. Since I don't own a kayak w/ ocean cockpit, I get to do this rarely and never elegantly. So - how do you get in? Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:07 PM 9/7/00 -0400, Michael Daly wrote: >From: "John Fereira" <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> > > >> >> I agree that's it's a fun and quick way to get back in when practicing under >> controlled conditions, but I would hesitate to characterize it as a self >> *rescue* technique. > >Here's my question then. How do you get into an ocean cockpit under normal >conditions? Do you always use your paddle held behind the cockpit, >braced on something solid? Usually. Typically, I don't need much support though, if any, to get in. > >I've been told that some BCU instructors will flunk you if you use your >paddle to enter a kayak. The instructor who told me that advised me >to learn to enter a floating kayak without any aid - to develop the >balance to do that. I've heard that a couple of times myself. However, I've never actually heard of someone failing the BCU assessment because they couldn't enter without the aid of a paddle and passing all of the other skills. As I mentioned earlier when I took the 3 Star assessment they only mentioned getting in and out and carrying the kayak but didn't bother testing on it. From all that I've heard, at least in the 3 Star assessment, most failures are the result of the support strokes failing to meet their standards. Considering I can get my head under water on both sides on a high brace and doing a sculling brace with both ears in the water with a *very* slow sculling motion I doubt that I would fail an assessment because I used my paddle to make it easier to get in and out of a British made boat with an ocean cockpit. >The easiest way is a cowboy entry from a >standing position (ie. stradle the kayak, sit and enter.) >Trying that with an ocean kayak means sitting on the rear deck >and getting your feet in first, then sliding in. Since I don't >own a kayak w/ ocean cockpit, I get to do this rarely and never >elegantly. So - how do you get in? If I don't want to get wet (even my feet) I'll use a method that is most likely going to get me in and out of the boat that has the least potential for a capsize. Usually, that involves the assistance of a paddle. I *do* own a kayak with an ocean cockpit so everytime I get in my boat it involves sitting on the back deck and going in feet first. Practice that enough and you can get fairly adept at it. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
For what star award or coaching award. 3 star does not involved self rescue; 4 star you need to demonstrate a role; i'm not sure on 5 star except you need to do a re-entry and role. sid *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: <Sidney_Stone_at_amsinc.com> > > > For what star award or coaching award. 3 star does not involved self rescue; 4 > star you need to demonstrate a role; i'm not sure on 5 star except you need to > do a re-entry and role. > > sid > > > I've been told that some BCU instructors will flunk you if you use your > paddle to enter a kayak. I've no idea. I believe it's for a coaching award and it seems based on the instructor. The same instructor apparently will not allow you to take the course in a kayak equipped with a rudder, even if you don't use it! A friend wanted to take the course and was annoyed he'd have to borrow or rent an unfamiliar kayak for the week long course. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/7/00 2:23:34 PM, KCoplan_at_law.pace.edu writes: << But the cowboy rescue does come in handy when you are practicing and testing the limits of your rolls and have to do a wet exit in calm conditions. Saves the trouble of mounting the paddle float and stowing it again. >> then there is the reenter and roll, which I can do MUCH more easily in any water. <<For what star award or coaching award. 3 star does not involved self rescue; 4 star you need to demonstrate a role; i'm not sure on 5 star except you need to do a re-entry and role.>> Believe it or not it is the BCU2 that requires entering the boat without assistance from the paddle. Even the coach I had last year didn't know anything about it and thought it weird. Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > I've been told that some BCU instructors will flunk you if you use your > > paddle to enter a kayak. I have in front of me the BCU brochure for the 1 - 3 Star tests for kayak. Here is what it says about launching the kayak at each level: 1-star: "The boat must be afloat. Balance must be maintained. The paddle must remain within reach or can be used to assist in embarking." 2-star: "Boat to be afloat and entry into it without any aid from the paddle, though the paddle must be close, i.e., within reach." 3-star: "The candidate should be able to launch safely and efficiently from any reasonable launching spot, e.g., pier, steps, high river bank." So, in fact, there is mention at the 2-star level of entry into the kayak without the aid from the paddle. However, a few observations: (a) This requirement presupposes an ideal (sheltered, smooth, shallow-grade) launch site appropriate for paddlers without advanced skills; and (b) while entry without a paddle may be a good way to prolong the life of the paddle and may also be a good balance-enhancing exercise, I believe that this is *not* a skill that should determine passage or failure of the 2-star award overall. So it may be that "some BCU instructors will flunk you if you use your paddle to enter a kayak,", but again, IMO this should not be a criterial skill. > The same instructor apparently will not allow you to take > the course in a kayak equipped with a rudder, even if you don't use it! > A friend wanted to take the course and was annoyed he'd have to borrow > or rent an unfamiliar kayak for the week long course. This also may be true, but is decidedly not BCU policy. While BCU (and probably most) instructors may shy away from using some recreational boats for courses (impossible to edge for boat control, difficult to rescue when without bulkheads or floatation), There is absolutely nothing in the BCU materials that prevents the use of a sea kayak with a rudder. Bob V *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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