RE:[Paddlewise] : Boat Strength and Weight

Peter Treby <ptreby_at_ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>Matt writes:
"Here in the Northwest the public demands and gets a kayak that is a little
too lightweight
to take hard pounding on rocks or enders in surf."
That immediately prompts me to think that if that is the case, the
knowledgeable manufacturer ought to supply a heavier seaworthy boat as
standard, and supply a lighter boat on demand after explaining its lack of
strength and attendant risks.<<<<
Most paddling in the Seattle, WA/Vancouver, BC area is on inland waters and
few paddlers venture off the coast. Since 19 out of 20 paddlers will choose
the lighter kayak if given a choice (and they get all the information you
suggest) why would a dealer want to stock the kayak for 5% of the customers
and have to order custom kayaks for the other 95%. Since almost all the
orders for our kayaks are custom orders I'm only faced with this problem for
the other companies kayaks I handle as a retailer.
I don't like seeing any kayak I sell come back damaged much less broken. You
can be sure that we make our standard lay-up strong enough to stand up to
surf big enough that few paddlers will go beyond the kayaks limits. Those
who might usually know it and can get heavier lay-ups. You can also be sure
that any paddler wanting a custom lightweight kayak is informed of the
limitations of that kayak (bigger surf, rocks in breaking surf, and boat
over boat rescues). The line of price point fiberglass kayaks we carry have
their least expensive lay-up choice also being their strongest and heaviest
lay-up. What most who buy it want is a good kayak at a low price. They
suffer a little extra weight but get a stronger stiffer kayak as well. They
don't break them and I'm happy not doing repairs.

>>>On referring to the bible, Derek Hutchinson's "The Complete Book of Sea
Kayaking" 4th Ed, Chapter One, it opens with general comments about design,
and there is plenty of discussion of the design considerations useful to a
buyer. I can't find any mention of weight. There is a little about North
American designs, pages 19, 20 and 21, with recommendations for reinforcing
weak decks.
Where's the problem with the bible?

Same problem I have with any "bible", I don't believe it!
Actually the book you mentioned used to be called "Sea Canoeing" in some
earlier editions and that is not the manuscript I was commenting on. Derek
was writing a guide for North America to be published by Pacific Search
Press in Seattle. Pacific Search was trying to get me to sign a contract to
write a "Deep Trouble" style book based on the Sea Kayaker articles I had
been writing as kayak safety editor. They showed me Derek's original
manuscript to what became "Derek Hutchinson's Guide to Sea Kayaking". This
was an inferior book to "Sea Canoeing" (which I don't recommend either as I
think there are several better texts on the market). The "Guide to...."
included a lot of survival stuff that was a poor rehash of other works that
had little to do with kayaking. I still want to see Derek make a fire
without matches using the methods described in the book. I'm in agreement
with John Winters about Derek's hull design writing and I didn't think much
of his safety and rescue information either (my two areas of self-proclaimed
expertise). David Zimmerly told me Derek's history was all wrong and David
Burch ("Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation" and at least five other major
navigation textbooks) showed me a copy of Derek's Guide to... he had marked
(with an orange felt pen) each sentence that had an error in it (in Derek's
navigation section). Half of it was orange. Not being an expert in those
areas I wouldn't have been nearly as critical. Derek is good on paddling
skills but tends to try to write the rest of the book off the top of his
head as well and gets a lot of things wrong. I read the first edition of
"Sea Canoeing" that my brother got at the library before I was ever a sea
kayaker and I can recall realizing that some things Derek had written just
couldn't be true (at least if other things he had written earlier were
true).
Note: I realized that it must have been in 1986 or 1987 that I saw the
manuscript rather than 1983 or 1984 as I had guessed earlier. I'm at home
and my copy is at work or I'd check the copyright date and quit guessing.

>>>There are a few weak, but popular boats here as well. Some you can
depress
the deck in places with one finger. That worries me, but the sales staff
tell you that it's strong enough. Have a look at the boat cracked in half 5
kms off shore at:
http://www.nswseakayaker.asn.au/forsale.htm
Regards,
Peter Treby<<<<

Thanks for the picture Peter, but what happened to the kayak? Let me guess,
boat over boat rescue as advocated in some bibles?

Matt Broze
http://www.marinerkayaks.com


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