> 20Oct 2000 From: "Rev. Bob Carter" Subject: a whale of a day > ...they (Humpback Whales) surface just behing us... about 40 yards from us. >Then ...passing about 20 yards in front of us... >... only three boat lengths in front of me. >...this whale was checking us out! >... Then the whale... began to swim towards us...the whale got about one boat length away... It strikes me as quite risky to be paddling amongst whales. Equivilent perhaps to diving amongst sharks. Would this be a fair comparison? I know next to nothing about whale behavior. Tom Dowling *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----------- Original Message ----------- From: tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Re: From: "Rev. Bob Carter" Subject: a whale of a day: > ...they (Humpback Whales) surface just behing us... about 40 yards from us. Then ...passing about 20 yards in front of us... only three boat lengths in front of me...this whale was checking us out!... Then the whale... began to swim towards us...the whale got about one boat length away...< and Tom Replied: >>It strikes me as quite risky to be paddling amongst whales. Equivilent perhaps to diving amongst sharks. Would this be a fair comparison? I know next to nothing about whale behavior. Tom Dowling<< Hi Tom, I paddle with Gray Whales almost every day, and I've also paddled with Orcas on several occasions, and once with a Blue Whale. All of my encounters have been safe and lovely experiences. [small disclaimer: I'm not a marine biologist or any sort of "whale expert" - I just paddle with them every day]... Whales, when not being attacked, are curious, friendly, and very gentle - even playful. I also think that they're very intelligent. I know the Gray Whales the best, as there are eight residents here in my local waters, and we've become good friends in the last few years. All of them will spend hours at a time with me (individually and/or as a group), and some will even allow me to scratch their beaks. I tap a little "signature" rhythm on my deck, and they will often come say "hello" when they hear me. I'll sometimes capsize when one approaches (so that I can see/experience the whole whale underwater), and it will come right up to me and allow me to touch it. I've even gotten out of my boat and swam with them. Really quite wonderful. One of them likes to gently push the bow of by boat around in circles. Each has it's particular personality, and patterns of "social behavior". Even the local mother whales will trust me to "babysit" their young ones when they're off eating. I'll sometimes spend hours paddling slowly alongside a baby, and later, it's mother will come back, and they'll swim off together. I've also paddled with many of the migrating whales as they go up and down the coast each spring and fall, and they too are curious, friendly, and gentle. Whales are really quite different than sharks. Even sharks don't particularly consider us a delicacy (especially with all our stinky neoprene), but with their "always on" appetite and their extreme predatory nature, we sometimes, as David Whyte might say,"find ourselves in a spot of bother". Even so, in most cases, they take one little nibble and decide we're not so tasty after all. The largest of the whales have baleen rather than teeth, and eat krill and plankton. Orcas have teeth, and are fierce hunters, but even they don't find us particularly tasty - and will opt for salmon or seals. So Tom - I encourage you to seek out some of these magnificent creatures and paddle with them. I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised. Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Reese" <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> To: <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com>; <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:12 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] Whales > > Hi Tom, > > I paddle with Gray Whales almost every day, and I've also paddled > with Orcas on several occasions, and once with a Blue Whale. All of > my encounters have been safe and lovely experiences. Hi Melissa, Although we don't get whales in the gulf where I live, we do encounter orca and dolphins. What is the prodical for kayaking with marine mammals? And when does looking become hasselling? Cheers Grant *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Grant Glazer wrote: >>Hi Melissa, Although we don't get whales in the gulf where I live, we do encounter orca and dolphins. What is the prodical for kayaking with marine mammals? And when does looking become hasselling? Cheers Grant<< Hi Grant, That's a very good question you ask, as I've certainly seen a lot of terrible human behavior around whales. I've also seen whales badly injured - and some even killed - by boat propellers. It's not just motor boaters either, as I've had the unfortunate opportunity to see hundreds of paddlers surrounding and chasing whales as well. And then there's my personal situation here, where I really do consider the local whales to be my friends - and so I do have some mixed feelings about this (more on this in a bit)... The standard protocol is to not approach closer than 100-200 meters (I've heard both figures from various Marine Fisheries personnel). After that, if a marine mammal decides to approach you, then just enjoy the experience. You are also not supposed to chase them, or "corner" them between boats. Officially, there is also a time limit for how long you should be hanging around them - about half an hour I think. Each spring, when the Gray Whales are migrating from Baja to Alaska, the large bay near here is filled with visiting whales for about a month. It's the only time of year that the local whale watching motor boats come out to gawk, and it's horrible to see how so many of them actually chase the whales around. Though the whales are naturally curious, and as I've mentioned before, even friendly, it is also obvious when they're being disturbed, and these "chasers" definitely do bother them. There are some good whale watching operations that are more responsible, but here, where I've never even seen a Marine Fisheries boat on patrol during the short watching season, many (not all, but many) of the tours are given by the local charter fishing boats, and many of them (again - not all of them) don't seem to be at all concerned with anything but getting their clients the closest view - at any cost to the whales themselves. The specific waters I'm most familiar with here are pretty shallow in places, and the whales do enjoy these areas. I've seen so many people in power boats just fooling around at high speeds in these shallow areas, and not giving any thought to how they might be disturbing the creatures who live just below the surface. Luckily, this really isn't such a popular place, so aside from a very short summer season, not many "pleasure boats" are around here at all. I spend a lot of time in the summer chasing down very fast boats and asking people to perhaps consider the whales and other sea creatures that inhabit these waters. Unfortunately, only a small percentage of these people will even care. My body is very tired and sore after a day of chasing motor boats! Now - on to my own situation for a moment... Obviously, I do approach the locals at distances measured in inches rather than meters or yards. Most of the time though, they approach me. As I've said - I do consider these local whales to be "friends" of mine, and I generally don't keep 100-200 meters between myself and my friends. Most of the year, I'm the ONLY person, besides a few local crabbers, fishermen, etc. who are anywhere near these whales. The truly local fishermen - not the ones who only come out during the "watching season" do love and respect the whales, and carefully avoid disturbing them. When I have paddling friends here (usually only one to three at a time), we're very careful to not disturb the whales - and wait for them to approach us. We also stay close together, so that we're always on one side of him/her, and never surround - or "corner" - the whale. Also - each year, the local whales find different areas in this large bay where they like to hang out and/or eat. For instance, the summer just before this last one, my usual launching spot was right in the thick of their favorite spot. This last summer (and now as well), I'll often have to paddle three or four (or more) miles offshore to see them. This means that even when friends visit, I don't always take them to where the whales might be - depending on their experience level and the conditions, etc. In general, aside from the apparent abundance of food here (for at least a small number of whales anyway), I'm guessing that the local whales like it here BECAUSE it's such an "unpopular" and quiet place most of the year. Perhaps I don't strictly follow the official protocols when dealing with the local whales (and when I'm by myself), but of course, they don't either. They will approach me, and stay with me for hours, no matter where I decide to paddle. This of course exceeds the "half hour limit" for whale watching (or "human watching" in this case). It may seem hypocritical of me, since I don't always strictly follow the "rules", but I do think that the official protocols are a good idea, and I wish more people would follow them. In my case, I've become as familiar to the local whales as the thousands of harbor seals that they also swim with every day. I can also easily tell when they wish to be left alone (generally, this involves them swimming away), and I respect their space and never "chase" after them. Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> > That's a very good question you ask, as I've certainly seen a lot of > terrible human behavior around whales. I've also seen whales badly > injured - and some even killed - by boat propellers. It's not just > motor boaters either, as I've had the unfortunate opportunity to see > hundreds of paddlers surrounding and chasing whales as well. Melissa, Where did you say all of this is happening (the hundreds of paddlers chasing the whales and your intimate interaction with these whales)? I must have missed your message about where all of this is taking place. Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie wrote: >>Melissa, Where did you say all of this is happening (the hundreds of paddlers chasing the whales and your intimate interaction with these whales)? I must have missed your message about where all of this is taking place. Jackie<< Hi Jackie, The place where I live and regularly paddle with the Gray Whales is on the outer coast of WA state (USA for those not familiar with this area). I live in Copalis Beach (I recently moved a few miles up the coast from where I was in Ocean Shores), and the whales hang out in and around Grays Harbor and along the coast. The place where I witnessed the terrible paddler behavior was in Puget Sound a few years ago - when a pod of Orcas were hanging out in Dyes Inlet (near Bremerton) for a while. I went there a couple of times. The first time I went it was stormy, so only myself and a few other paddlers were there - no motor boats at all. It was a very dramatic setting with the weather, and the experience was wonderful, with all 19 whales swimming and breaching amongst us for hours. The next time I went there, it was very sunny, and there were hundreds of motor boaters and paddlers (I'm not kidding - hundreds!). They were all chasing the whales around, despite the Marine Fisheries people trying to get people to stop. It was so disgusting that I just left and didn't come back during the rest of the whale's stay in the inlet. Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Melissa wrote: <<big snip>> What I wrote in my previous post in was in response to Melissa's first whale post...I'm on Digest, so I hadn't yet read what Melissa more eloquently wrote in her second post. Sorry to poorly reiterate what was already said by someone with more whale experience than me! :) Shawn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Melissa: I don't question your experience, nor deeply felt love and respect for these beautiful creatures. BUT...I would also remind you of what often befalls wild animals "habituated" to human contact. Not everyone appreciates these remarkable creatures to the extent you do. Someone could possibly feel "threatened" or even "attacked" by marine mammals that have become "playfully" attached to other humans. Being approached by large creatures, underwater while in a small watercraft, may not be percieved by each and every paddler as a joyous event or wonderful experience. Anthropromorphism aside, animal that lose their fear of humankind, usually suffer fatal consequences. I think the NOAA guidelines are designed to protect BOTH the marine animals and their "human friends". The mortality rate for humans vs. wild animals is, most unfortunately , heavily weighted against the animal. Petting the whales, is a kin to feeding the bears. It may be enjoyable, but not only does it place the "next person" at risk for unwanted contact with that animal, but definitely jeopardizes the safety and longevity of the animal itself. And I doubt you would want to be responsible for the injury or death of your "friends" in the water, anymore than you would wish to be accountable for the death of a friend on land. Rich Dempsey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Reese" <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net>> And then there's my personal situation here, where I really do consider > the local whales to be my friends - and so I do have some mixed > feelings about this (more on this in a bit)... (Major snip) > Now - on to my own situation for a moment... Obviously, I do > approach the locals at distances measured in inches rather than > meters or yards. Most of the time though, they approach me. As I've > said - I do consider these local whales to be "friends" of mine, and > I generally don't keep 100-200 meters between myself and my friends. > (Snip) > Perhaps I don't strictly follow the official protocols when dealing > with the local whales (and when I'm by myself), but of course, they > don't either. They will approach me, and stay with me for hours, no > matter where I decide to paddle. This of course exceeds the "half > hour limit" for whale watching (or "human watching" in this case). > > It may seem hypocritical of me, since I don't always strictly follow > the "rules", but I do think that the official protocols are a good > idea, and I wish more people would follow them. In my case, I've > become as familiar to the local whales as the thousands of harbor > seals that they also swim with every day. I can also easily tell > when they wish to be left alone (generally, this involves them > swimming away), and I respect their space and never "chase" after > them. > > Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Reese" <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Whales (long) >My body is very tired and sore after a day of chasing motor boats! You must use a wing paddle!! Seriously thanks for you answer. I checked out the local (New Zealand) regulations which summarises as: Minimum vessel approaching whales of 50 metres Minimum of 100 metres if swimming Moving away if mammals are showing signs of distress Oddly there is no minimum distance for dolphins and seals! They are exempt from the 50 metre rule. Most probably for the tourist trade dollar (swim with the dolphins etc). The reason I initially asked about approaching sea mammals is that I kayaked around my first fur seals a couple of weeks ago. They were sunbathing at the time until I got within 75 metres (to take a photo). One climbed down of the rocks and swam out in front of us. Every 20 metres or so it would roll on its side and lift a flipper in the air and wait. Since it was swimming away from us, we got the message that it was trying to lead us away from the rest of the seals. Since this happened in a harbour surrounded by NZ's largest city, I would think the poor blighter does this trick often. Obviously our regulations aren't nearly strict enough. Also, there is no notices at ramps or any publicity. Thus my ignorance. Cheers Grant *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Melissa wrote: >So Tom - I encourage you to seek out some of these magnificent >creatures and paddle with them. I think you'll be very pleasantly >surprised. This response isn't necessarily a direct response to Melissa, but to everyone in general. Before everyone rushes off to seek out and paddle with whales, keep in mind that the Marine Mammal Protection Act in the US states that you must stay at least 200 yards away from marine mammals. You also shouldn't put yourself on an intercept course so that they will swim toward you where you are stopped. That said, however, the g'ummint has no say in where the cetaceans/pinnipeds choose to swim. If they choose to swim toward you or let you touch them, I guarantee the powers-that-be won't ticket the creatures on the other side of our air-water interface. Shawn Who has never been lucky enough to paddle with whales before, but hopes someday they'll choose to swim near me! And yes, I am insanely jealous of Melissa, but I don't begrudge her her whale friends! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Here is a rare picture of a Florida White Whale that Bob Denton was talking about http://www.jacksonville.net/~dldecker/whale.htm NOT FOR THE FOR THE FAINT OF HEART OR KIDS UNDER 30yrs OF AGE Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I wrote: >So Tom - I encourage you to seek out some of these magnificent >creatures and paddle with them. I think you'll be very pleasantly >surprised. And Shawn responded: >>This response isn't necessarily a direct response to Melissa, but to everyone in general. Before everyone rushes off to seek out and paddle with whales, keep in mind that the Marine Mammal Protection Act in the US states that you must stay at least 200 yards away from marine mammals. You also shouldn't put yourself on an intercept course so that they will swim toward you where you are stopped.<< -snip- Good point Shawn. This is why (in spite of the response to Jackie I just wrote), I generally don't advertise my location. I'm hoping that even though I just mentioned it in my last post response to Jackie's question, the people reading this list will respect the whales and the generally quiet life they enjoy before coming out here with "100-or-so close friends" to chase them around every weekend. In general, I've come to respect the people on this list, and trust that most - if not all of you - are considerate to the marine wildlife we encounter, and act responsibly when you're around them. Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Shawn W. Baker" <baker_at_montana.com> > That said, however, the g'ummint has no say in where the > cetaceans/pinnipeds choose to swim. If they choose to swim toward you > or let you touch them, I guarantee the powers-that-be won't ticket the > creatures on the other side of our air-water interface. Maybe not but if you get into the water and decide to swim with them and they "allow" you to pet them, the powers-that-be may decide to slap a hefty fine on *you.* Such was the case of a woman who dove into the water offshore to swim with whales while her husband video taped the event under water (she thought they were being very friendly in allowing her to pet them). One of the whales decided to take her for a "ride" and grabbed her leg and held her under water for a long period. She was very nearly killed and was slapped with a pretty large fine after she recovered. People should be aware of the risks (not unlike people wanting to get out of the car to pet the nice, furry, harmless-looking "Bullwinkle"). Folks need to remember these are wild creatures and the ocean is not Sea World. Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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