In a message dated 10/4/00 8:40:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RWMCT_at_aol.com writes: << The post about the Mustang Suits and inflatable pfd's interested me. This spring I took a rolling class in a high flotation pfd and a dry suit, which trapped a fair amount of air in it. The only way I could get completely upside down was to tuck in tight while the instructor flipped me over. I capsized while waiting my turn and floated only a little under the water. Makes me wonder whether a practical pfd could be made that would keep one from going under or bring one up to the top, from which one could get up with a scullling brace or with help from a wave. I recognize that the waves might bash one about a bit, but for the many without bombproof rolls this would be preferable. Any comments? Rich in Connecticut rwmct_at_aol.com >> Ralph Hoehn here: In the 1930s some people wore PFDs specially equipped with a neck piece that was extended almost to the top of their head. When used in sufficiently narrow boats, it prevented the paddler from turning upside down during a capsize. After falling onto his or her side, the paddler would remain floating like this (perectly able to breathe) until using a hip flick, sweep etc. to come back upright. "Stehaufweste" ("stand-up vest") was the term for it. The main reason for this PFD was to prevent white water paddlers from getting their head under water, where they might get hurled into rocks and sustain injury. This PFD is reputed to have been a little cumbersome though. Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Makes me wonder whether a practical pfd could be made that would keep one > from going under or bring one up to the top, from which one could get up with > a scullling brace or with help from a wave. I recognize that the waves > might bash one about a bit, but for the many without bombproof rolls this > would be preferable. Any comments? I think it's easier, safer, and better in the long-term to *GET* a bombproof roll, or as near to one as possible. It never ceases to amaze me that people try to find so many bits of equipment designed to try to either (a) alleviate the need for a bombproof roll or (b) mitigate the consequences of not having one. To me, it seems far better to simply invest the time -- and that could be substantial time, but that's the way it goes -- to acquire and practice (on a regular basis, forever) solid roll skills. ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<< ... Makes me wonder whether a practical pfd could be made that would keep one from going under or bring one up to the top ... << I think it's easier, safer, and better in the long-term to *GET* a bombproof roll, or as near to one as possible. ... Ralph Hoehn here AGAIN on the subject with a little clarification. Firstly, I agree fully that continual practice towards achieving the ideal of a "bomb-proof" roll is no less than proper and responsible behavior on the part of any paddler. Hey, I'm the guy who practices and advocates practicing rolling in folding kayaks even and that over howls of protest here on Paddlewise recently (and somewhat less noisily on a German discussion forum)! I previously mentioned the "stand-up" PFD used by white water paddlers in the early part of the 20 century. The guy who invented it actually was a highly accomplished and respected paddler, one of the first that could boast a "bomb-proof" roll in a folding kayak in white water (Hans von Alber), a roll which saved his skin on numerous occasions and probably his life on a few more. I believe that his main concern was not that he could not rely on his "bomb-proof" roll under normal circumstances, but rather two-fold: 1 - Running white water presents the inherent risk of encountering rocks in shallow, fast moving water. Even a helmet cannot always totally prevent the potentially negative consequences of such an encounter. Back then they did not have the marvelous materials that make helmets for white water kayakers today so easily feasible. (I've been known to use a highly buoyant bicycle helmet in surf myself. :-) 2 - Even an accomplished practitioner of something close to a "bomb-proof" roll must be conscious to perform one and is that much less likely to be able to do so if his (or her) abilities are impaired by some other incident prior to needing to rely on one. Once this point is reached, it is certainly more likely that a stricken paddler will survive if he is floating on his side rather than hanging upside down waiting for death by drowning or mutilation by impact. It is a useful human trait to search for useful devices to help us survive and prosper. Without the device of the kayak itself, certain peoples would have found themselves swimming after seals, whales, seaotters ... The concept of the "stand-up" PFD has been tried, was successfully used by people like Ernst Kauefer and Ernst Becher (mostly long forgotten of course, but important pioneers of kayak-based exploration of the Scandinavian countries in their day), but has disappeared again. Perhaps there's a good reason for that! Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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