[Paddlewise] Rant and Raves

Warning, long rant. This is not a flame. However, bodily injury and loss of
property may occur.


> kevin had said:
>
> << However, it is the height of hubris and self-centeredness to suggest that
>  your own personal limits ought to apply to any other person, or to assume
>  that the other person is inadequate in any way for having less limits.  >>
>

Scott then said:

>
>    Uh, am I mistaken, or haven't I seen any number of folks get collectively
> hammered by this list for having a different set of "limits" then the rest?
>
>

Scott,
I've been on the receiving end of the abuse too. Mostly back-channel, and some
of it very impassioned at times. I've almost unsubsribed a few times in the past
(not because I was that upset, but because of the accusations of leading others
astray). The worst one was a time when I mentioned the importance of
_determination_ for those who set their "limits" higher, and for those with
lower limits that get into unexpected trouble. Someone from your So Cal  state
got on my case (mostly because I mentioned determination and newbies in the same
post). The sting can sure hurt. For the most part, I share the juicy stuff
back-channel now with other hard-core paddlers who understand and are not
participating out of "morbid curiosity". This also let's me off the hook with
the newbie concerns. Also, it can take a while, but eventually, if you are
right, you will be vindicated. My vindication took over a year as far as my
"determination post" -- and only just recently. Ralph D posted a gracious note,
repeating some of an interview with Hans Linderman, and the importance of
determination (and other things). I'm sure Duane saw some good justification in
the post too.

However, the bulk of what I see on PW suggests a different reality to what you
indicate. I'm not disagreeing with you, just suggesting my perception differs
vastly from yours. What I see going down are folks collectively questioning what
and what isn't safe, for a given level of competency and regional practice - so
as to reflect and consider what their standards might be if adjustment is needed
or just some confirmation. However, I don't normally recall anyone saying the
other person should not do what they are doing or should not have the right to
do what they do. Its mostly just folks thinking out loud about their
understanding of what common sense and comfort zones might possibly be (such as
the PFD debate). Its a free list, and lots of voices and opinions help us
reflect upon our own safety standards and equipment provisions. It is just adult
conversation. Tricks are for kids.

I also truly believe that a paddler's "limits" are often hard to define
objectively. By sharing in a mature exchange such as Jackie attempts to keep us
(we are a very subjective PW bunch), and with a wide and varied audience and
participation level, we all benefit tremendously. I think you and I and even
Duane often see things too black and white. PW helps us define some of the gray,
if that makes sense (though you probably see PW'ers as often too black and
white). I think some of us take ourselves far too seriously. We all need to
lighten up a bit at times, both with respect to your jabs at the list, and the
list's preoccupation with penultimate safety.

I also try to take everything as constructive criticism when it is leveled
against me. This is the mature way, and the learning way -- the enlightened way.
Some of us on this list need to learn that. But I have no right to tell that to
anybody. All I can do is be responsible for myself. By accepting all criticism
good or bad (even if it stings for a few days), and by accepting and reflecting
graciously even if only 10% of it is valid or 1 out of 10 comments are valid, I
will ultimately be the beneficiary. I try as much as possible to do this now,
sifting the wheat from the chaff. Gaining true wisdom can be a bit of work and
takes a bit more humility than I often can keep pace with.

If your post had Duane in mind, in particular, well...Duane can be a pain! He
has a unique "notion for the ocean", which has caused a bit of commotion. Here's
a few observations about the vexations:

1. If folks didn't care about Duane, they would just ignore him.
2. If he weren't an ambassador for adventure paddling in his locale, by default,
there would be less concern indicated by folks who have valid moral concerns for
the impression newbies might be left with. I used to be the same way, so
voluntarily opted out of teaching new paddlers for many years.
3. Don't pity Duane. He loves to stir the pot and get a reaction out of the
list. If he gets cutting remarks back, it is only because of the fact that if
you live by the sword you die by the sword as they say. Mr. "Stoker" loves to
fan the flames. He loves the tempest I'm sure. I sure do some days. Its part of
the nature of adventure paddlers to like being in the middle of a tempest! Duane
will be fine - but if he doesn't get what people have been trying to tell him,
he probably never will.
4. At least Duane hasn't been accused of getting into kayaking the last couple
of years as a cure for a waning libido (at least I didn't see that charge
leveled against the list in his recent post with his list of aggravations)...
:-)
5. If Duane doesn't want to listen to the many fine and gracious, mature people
on this list, he doesn't have to. Listening is an option in life.Accepting your
subscription to PW  "as a priviledge" is an option to. I do know that good,
mature paddlers learn to listen.  That is how you become a wise, well-honed
paddler. You listen to subtle and not-so-subtle clues around you, you listen for
tips about local knowledge of an area you are paddling, and you listen to other
paddlers and try to learn at a variety of levels. You constantly update your
information, such as listening to mid-day weather reports. Kayaking can teach
you so much about life. I fear Duane may be accused of a far worse thing than
his hit list included on his "Turkey Post". I fear he may be accused of having
no class. That would be a shame.

I'm not the kettle calling the pot black. I'm just saying I've been black, I
want to get shinny again  - not go back to black.  Some folks on this list flame
too much, but they are the ones that get burnt and blackened. I will not mention
any names.

I don't always agree with you Scott, but I will always listen; I will always
respect the fact that you are in "the trenches" (or is that "troughs") actually
teaching folks to paddle out your way, and that your views and perceptions are
just as valid as mine. I have my "limits" too on this list, however. They may be
different than yours. I don't happen to suffer fools as easily as I used too. I
hope we never consider each other as such, as time goes by.

BC'in Ya
Doug Lloyd


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