On 30-Nov-2000 ralph diaz wrote: > Hi, > > I have almost a half dozen things I have seen or read lately that makes > me wonder whether we should be rethinking some of the things we know or > think we know about drysuits and wetsuits. Here are the items in > capsule form: > > 1. Sea Kayaker published an article earlier on dry suits in which I > took issue with some of the author's comments. One was regarding use of > a neck ring to relieve some of the pressure of the neck gasket. In my > letter which SK published I commented on that (and also the idea of > leaving the drysuit off the top of your body while paddling in calm > conditions...but that is a separate issue). The author replied that > even with the neck ring on you would only get a few ounces of water into > the suit if you capsize and roll back up. <Snip> Ralph, you are very obstinate in your thinking. The above mentioned author was me, and I'll respond to your comments below. > A. First wetsuits: a given in neoprene wet suits is that you must have > them extraordinarily tight or otherwise they won't work. I have > discarded several neoprene farmer johns because of either increased > tightness or growing intolerance for them. The tuliaq case as presented > by Greg Stamer would seem to indicate that perhaps we don't have to boa > constrictor ourselves to death in tight wetsuits and that a real loose > fit would be survivable. > A tuiliq is survivable and warm only in the event that you *always* make your roll. If your vision of safety includes preparing for the possibility of a swim, then a tuiliq is not at all safe without a wetsuit or drysuit underneath. > b. Regarding drysuits, the wisdom is that they must be fully sealed off > religiously so. But if wearing a neck ring compromises water intergrity > so minimally (the few ounces that were reported to get by the open neck > gasket), then why have latex gaskets at all? Because latex is the only truly waterproof seal, and neck rings can be installed and removed in only a few seconds either way. If you read carefully my article and my reply in the letters to the editor, the advice of using a neck ring (and unzipping the suit) is designed to solve a particularly nasty dillema. What to do when it's very warm and calm when you launch, but you want to be safe in case the conditions suddenly worsen when you are on the water. We all know how quickly conditions on the sea can deteriorate, and it would be shame if someone didn't wear their drysuit because it seemed to warm for the then currently benign conditions. Once on the water,it is too late to put on a drysuit, however a neck ring often allows enough extra ventilation when conditions are calm so that a drysuit can be worn comfortably. It takes only a second to dislodge a neck ring so that the drysuit seal is reestablished -- the neck ring is still around your neck, but it rests underneath the latex and is barely noticed. I have performed rolls with neck rings in very cold water... it really is no big deal. I have even dislodged the neck ring while upside down, reestablishing the neck seal, and rolled back up with only a few drops of water in my drysuit. I honestly fail to see how you can adamantly believe that neck rings so thoroughly compromise the safety of a drysuit when faced with these facts. I view wearing a neck ring as something similar to wearing sunglasses. It makes you more comfortable when it is hot (or the sun is out), and can doffed or donned in seconds only when a watertight seal is desired (or clouds cover the sun). As far as paddling with a drysuit unzipped or rolled around your waist... yes this does compromise safety. It is a more radical solution to same dilemma mentioned above, and using it *requires* understanding the issues and practicing the technique. My article explains the issues and risks clearly, and this option is one clever solution to remaining safe and comfortable in *all* foreseeable conditions on a single paddling trip. I think I can see one reason why you might not be able to understand the utility of my suggestions. If what you mostly do is paddle on short day trips in protected areas like New York, then perhaps you rarely encounter the extreme variety of conditions where something like this is truly useful. However, where I paddle in such as the San Juan Islands in Washington, it can often be 80F on the water on calm mornings, but as soon as the wind picks up (which it always does), the temperature can drop rapidly 20F or more. You are welcome to never follow my suggestions if you wish, but I think the information should be out there for discriminating paddlers to at least consider. Wouldn't we be better off > with say a Darlexx gasket which is like neoprene but doesn't itself > absorb water that can trickle in? And if the combo of a dry top and dry > pants lets in minimal amounts of water, why should we get caught up in > the discomfort of a full suit? It depends on where you are paddling and under what conditions. In the PNW where the water is frigid and the weather is often bad, a drysuit is the ultimate in warmth, safety, and comfort. In Florida, where it the water is very warm, a drysuit is definitely not worth the discomfort. There is no waterproof alternative to a drysuit with latex gaskets however. Can a case now be made for the semi-dry > suits that were ushered in about a dozen years ago and eventually > dropped? These had neoprene gaskets and a non-waterproof zipper that > closed similarly to a dry bag with overlapping flaps over the zipper. > This sounds extremely unsafe in the event of an extended swim. Sounds much worse than using a neck ring, because it will always let water inside. I don't think a case can be made for ever using one of these suits. > I am not arguing with any of what has been reported. I am taking the 6 > points above as givens. And I am arguing that some of your points are not givens at all. Cheers, Kevin ---------------------------------- Kevin Whilden Your Planet Earth http://www.yourplanetearth.org E-Mail: kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org ph: (206) 788-0281 fax:(206) 788-0284 ---------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. 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