Fernando responded to my suggestion the ocean was softer, but the lessons harder: < I donīt want to polemize here, but I would like to clarify and maybe, give my excuses ..>. Fernando, You didn't need to clarify here, as I understood the intent and context of your post originally. Sorry you felt like I was pointing a finger at you, suggesting you had offended me. (No one on this list can offend me after some of the stuff I go through back channel with ex-paddling partners :-) ). I was simply emphasizing to newer paddlers on the list who might be reading, of the notion that you can get into trouble on any body of water, be it ocean, lake of moving river. Also, shoulder dislocations are not as uncommon as people think, nor are other injuries -- both in river whitewater and ocean "whitewater". Being a medical adjudicator for the Provincial Government of BC, I see a lot of kayak related injury reports. Well, at least my co-workers run over to me when they get them, 'cause they know I'm a kayaker: "Look here Doug, must be one of your idiot kayaker friends!" Nice, eh? I see lots of broken nose injuries, near drownings, shoulder dislocations (surfing), and lacerations. Some of these reports originate from different parts of the world where British Columbian kayakers have been off adventuring (coast of South America, Hawaii, etc). Privacy issues forbid me from delineating much further. You also said: <Said that, then I may have to give my apologizes, because I now realize that when I said " "Doug's" stormy seas ", I may have sound rude to him. Saying "stormy seas" would be graphical enough. The image I have of Doug paddling among huge waves may be only in my imagination, but it's a very good picture of a kayaker enjoying an extreme adventure plenty of most of the ingredients found in class IV rivers.> Yeah, most of my rough water sea kayaking is in my imagination too! Well, I have done my fair share of rough water, to be sure. A 7-meter sea with a 9-foot chop and gale-force winds is about the worse combination I've been in. One good thing about playing in rough water seas "on purpose", is that you don't panic so much, or reach your limits, when caught in average stormy seas during a regular trip. The seas we encountered in the Storm Islands incident were within my comfort zone, having been out in far worse before - though not towing someone for 6 hours :-). One thing that newer paddlers need to realize, especially gung ho macho types, is that the sea can be a lot more difficult to paddle than it appears from shore. Often, sitting at the beach, looking out of a small bay to seaward, you may be left with the impression that it doesn't look "too bad". Get out there, commit to a headland or some such thing, and you may be in for a bit of trauma. The sea doesn't have to be huge and nasty looking to present a major challenge. If most paddlers that like to talk about rough water paddling were honest with themselves and others, they would admit that a kayak traveling about 4-knots has many other limitations imposed, such as vessel size, stability thresholds, limits of skill and endurance, and personal aversion to the prospect of death. I can always tell after a few posts on paddlewise, whether a paddler is talking or walking the walk. The other thing that can catch newer paddlers intent on a little fun and adventure in rough seas is sudden wind direction change. The transition time can be very short when a front moves through rapidly, and if you haven't allowed enough of a margin or if the wind direction is integral to reaching shore you could be in for a bit a beating - or worse. Always, repeat, always, have an escape route or bail-out/backup plan. Do the thinking to make sure you have covered all eventualities. I once got into some of the worst seas ever imaginable off Cape Beale (entrance to Barkley Sound, West Coast Vancouver Island) - heavy swell reflecting off cliffs, big chop, with "elevator rides" so severe it felt as if the sea would suddenly disapeer for a momment from under the kayak The plan was to duck back into the Sound and Bamfield if it got too hairy. I forgot about a heavy outgoing tide that only made the seas that much worse and tightened entry to the escape route. A huge race off Cape Flattery in heavy seas did the same thing to me again . I've left these stories mostly silent under my "stupid is as stupid does" section of my log book. Well, don't rely too heavily on the forecasts. EC predicted gales to 35-knots this morning. Trial Island off Victoria was gusting to 49. Always allow for a healthy margin of error. And as always, those who paddle "Class IV" ocean whitewater know that it is less a matter of wholesale physicality, than it is of intelligence and conditioning to get you back home safely. Best wishes and all friendship to you Fernando. And remember, "Safety SMILES!" BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Doug Lloyd" Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Soft Water (was?) > > The other thing that can catch newer paddlers intent on a little fun and > adventure in rough seas is sudden wind direction change. The transition > time can be very short when a front moves through rapidly, and if you > haven't allowed enough of a margin or if the wind direction is integral > to reaching shore you could be in for a bit a beating - or worse. > hi, a couple of years ago, i read the scientific literature that compared (a) observations of the rate at which seas adjust to veering winds and (b) numerical model predications. the numerical models relied heavily on a factor that accounts for the strength of wave-wave interactions. that factor is difficult to measure directly, but by heavy numeric Klass Hasselman of Germany obtained a solution from some nasty equations. Hasselman is famous worldwide for that pioneering work. However, the computations were done for wave-wave interactions with waves traveling in one directions. During veering winds, the wind direction changes and there are waves from various directions. It happens that the numerical computations *do not* agree well with observations of waves during veering wind conditions. The wave field changes about twice as fast as is predicted by the models. Thus Doug's comment that the transition time can be very short when a front moves rapidly agrees with what i read..... the modeling problem may have been addressed during the past few years, but it is still prudent to be aware that fronts and veering winds make life very difficult folks who are paid to make wave forecasts. bye bye bliven *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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