In a message dated 12/21/00 12:50:51 PM, susyne_at_frontiernet.net writes: << I plan on purchasing myself a very inexpensive recreational kayak come spring. >> Sue, You may want to give some thought to purchasing and older white water boat in lieu of the less capable recreational kayak. The WW boat will do nearly everything better for less or similar cost and it will be significantly more fun when you start to learn about boat handling. At the skill sessions that I organize in the summers, lots of recreational kayak owners come to learn only to be frustrated by the limitations of the lower end boats. Have a great Holiday Season and remember that any boat that gets used is about a million percent better than a boat that just sits in storage. Good Luck. Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> You may want to give some thought to purchasing and older white water >> boat in lieu of the less capable recreational kayak. The WW boat will do >> nearly everything better for less or similar cost and it will be >> significantly more fun when you start to learn about boat handling. OK, I'm a relative newbie to all this so all appropriate disclaimers up front. Having said that, I'd like to question the "less capable" statement. Given that a skilled paddler could probably roll a bathtub, what exactly does "less capable" refer to? In my observation demo'ing boats, I saw that I could edge an arcadia [insert generic rec boat name here] to the coaming without much more difficulty than my eclipse or the Looksha I tried. I have no doubts that an arcadia could be rolled. It could also be turned in place or just about any other kayak maneuver I've ever heard of. The store I bought my kayak in told of a guy that used a Khatsalano for class 4+ rapids. I'm not trying to be difficult here. I understand that this is all a question of degree and that skill can overcome a lot of obstacles. But in the end, if a rec boat makes a new paddler feel more comfortable, does it really matter? I've also been studying the issue of "kayak speed" recently. My end conclusion is that in the hands of 2 olympic paddlers, one might observe hull speed differences between most common kayaks. But for the vast majority of the rest of us, I have my suspicions that this is also mythical. I keep studying the drag coefficients that Sea Kayaker mag publishes hoping to understand this better, but it seems like the differences to anyone less than a world class paddler are nominal at best. I'm especially dubious when I hear someone say, "I just started paddling and chose my xxxx boat because it was so much faster than yyyy". Seems more like brochure text than actual fact. I know that we're all obsessed with our love and like to endlessly split hairs regarding the characteristics of various boats -- especially the worthiness of our own boat (and I'm no exception -- my eclipse is the best boat ever constructed and don't you forget it!). When I was shopping and agonizing endlessly about such details, someone on usenet gave me the best advice I'd heard from anyone -- "Buy the boat you like." Any boat that tugs your heart will also [subjectively at least] paddle faster, turn sharper, and perform better than any boat which does not. Kind of like your car going faster when you wash the windshield -- reduces drag don't you know. Jeff (possibly totally ignorant newbie). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think there are a few to keep in mind here. When choosing a kayak, think about what you ultimately want to do with the kayak and how long that is going to take. If what you want to do is paddle around the family lake, or stream, fish and enjoy the water, then I think a rec kayak is a fine choice. If you think you will be undertaking some vigorous paddling, maybe some camping and multiday trips, than a more "standard" boat would make more sense. If you are thinking of paddling with other kayakers and they are paddling sea kayaks, then you definitely want a faster boat. Try and be honest with yourself. Remember that in the end, this is recreational for all of us (all of the sustenance hunters on the list aside). Part of the problem is that as a beginner, there is really no way to compare boats. Even when you do get a chance to test paddle the boats there just isn't that kayaking "boat-sense". Of course, an easy solution is to buy what everyone else is paddling. Seems around these parts, everyone and their cousin is now paddling a Romany and a lot of them are beginners. When in doubt ask ask ask. Ask people on the list. Ask at the shop (and also ask what their experience is kayaking), ask random paddlers. Find out why people paddle what they do, what they like and what they don't like about their boats. When I got my first boat, I had limited paddling experience (a three day course), and based most of my decision on aesthetics. It turned out to be a good decision. Lucky me. I think one of the best things a newcomer to the sport could do is to buy a used boat from one of the many outfitters around. I have purchased a couple of used boats and have always been happy with the decision. A used boat is going to be much cheaper, and you won't feel as bad if the boat doesn't work out and you feel you need to get something else after the season is up. Here is the states, a nice used fiberglass boat can be had for about $1,000. The plastic boats seem to go in the $500 - $1,000 range. Outfitters generally don't have the fanciest boats, but they do generally get good sturdy boats. Here is my secret tip. Most outfitters also sell their guide and instructor boats, this is where you'll find some nice bargains and some fancy boats as well. Getting that boat sense takes a little while. After a season of two, you'll be able to go to a boat demo and have a better sense of what works for you. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:44 AM 12/22/00 -0800, Hayes, Jeffrey D wrote: >>> You may want to give some thought to purchasing and older white water >>> boat in lieu of the less capable recreational kayak. The WW boat will do > >>> nearly everything better for less or similar cost and it will be >>> significantly more fun when you start to learn about boat handling. > >OK, I'm a relative newbie to all this so all appropriate disclaimers up >front. Having said that, I'd like to question the "less capable" statement. >Given that a skilled paddler could probably roll a bathtub, what exactly >does "less capable" refer to? In my observation demo'ing boats, I saw that >I could edge an arcadia [insert generic rec boat name here] to the coaming >without much more difficulty than my eclipse or the Looksha I tried. I have >no doubts that an arcadia could be rolled. It could also be turned in place >or just about any other kayak maneuver I've ever heard of. The store I >bought my kayak in told of a guy that used a Khatsalano for class 4+ rapids. >I'm not trying to be difficult here. I understand that this is all a >question of degree and that skill can overcome a lot of obstacles. But in >the end, if a rec boat makes a new paddler feel more comfortable, does it >really matter? Here's my take on it. First of all I consider the Acadia (note spelling) to be a slight step up from most "recreational" kayaks. When I think of a "recreational" kayak it's a bit shorter, a bit wider, and has a flatter hull. While, I believe that some people can roll almost any of the rec boats I doubt that there are few people that could *learn* to roll in one. Recreational kayaks also tend to have very roomy kayaks, so unless the boat (or the paddler) is well padded, it's difficult to get contact with you're knees and hips, which will not only make it difficult to roll, but even difficult to stay in the cockpit while inverted. Aside from the rolling limitations, due to the loose fit, most recrationalal kayaks are "less capable" in terms of it's sensitivity to the subtle movements that are acquired as skill levels improve. A boat with very high initial stability requires a substantial weight shift/lifting of the knee/cock of the hip to get it on edge. That makes them a lot more forgiving of "too much lean", but as a paddlers skills improve and they gain better control of their paddling muscles, a boat that is more sensitive to those subtle moves will be appreciated. >I've also been studying the issue of "kayak speed" recently. My end >conclusion is that in the hands of 2 olympic paddlers, one might observe >hull speed differences between most common kayaks. But for the vast >majority of the rest of us, I have my suspicions that this is also mythical. I haven't been paddling that long and I can certainly tell the difference between even a couple of similar kayaks in terms of kayak speed. I've also paddled over a 100 different models. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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