I received Matt's "research paper" on cockpit size (well, "research paper length") :-) It actually isn't too bad, and there wasn't anything in it I would disagree with, having now had a few years under my belt to see what works and doesn't work in the real world, and what people like to go with. For me, I still like my small cockpit, with its surety of non-slip bracing. I've found that it is possible in erratic seas to slip a thigh out from under a thigh brace, thereby negating the benefit of the arrangement. Matt disagrees in principle fine. Different paddlers, different results. I'm sure if I had a keyhole equipped Nordkapp, I'd even supplement the thigh braces with further distal support, appropriately padded. I also maintain that for me, my small cockpit affords a more comfortable bracing arrangement for hours of continuos heavy duty paddling. I know for a fact Matt has no idea about some of the things I do with my kayak, the overfalls I paddle, and in terms of sustained rough water paddling. If anyone has ever paddled big wind vs tide, you know what I mean. It is a lot different than surf or clapotis. Having said all that, I still had to modify my cockpit with a knee-tube pod to gain the control I needed. The bottom line? I'm out on a limb, with my paddling, so please disregard all comments about the superiority of small cockpits. The evolution of cockpit design has not gone that way, and Matt rightly points out my flawed thinking - but only if he thinks I'm recommending small cockpits to others. I'm not. I just wanted to get some thoughts with the baited post. I recommend small cockpits only to myself. You can do whatever you want, obviously. Look guys, I've gone through $30,000.00 the last year in discretionary spending, and didn't buy a new boat or a different boat. Obviously I'm happy with what I have (lighter would be nicer :-) ). Sorry to take up bandwidth, but Matt seemed rather upset. DL *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Final word? Let me squeeze these few in... Doug, I've scanned the "research paper" too. What do you think of the point that the prime importance in cockpit fitting is to fit hips and thighs firmly in, rather than the knee end? You seem to emphasize your knee tube's importance. And, for general entertainment, is there a photo somewhere of you dry testing cockpit fit, upside down with the boat in slings and you in the cockpit? I'd like to see that. It inspires thoughts of a dry-land rolling teaching machine. Maybe an obsolete boat, maybe someone's beat up Nordkapp, say, could be mounted on a lengthwise axle. Learners could be strapped in, and the basic motions of rolling taught. When proficient enough, the rolling machine, mounted as it would be in a drained swimming pool, would be flooded, and the learner would have to really roll. Survivors would be deemed partially seaworthy. They would be granted a BCU Silver Snorkel. And wait, maybe these rolling machines could be fitted with coin operated boxes, and placed in shopping malls for kids to play in. Say in downtown Angmagssalik. What do you think? PT *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Gotta laugh here Peter. I just spent a whole hour replying to your post below. I went to a couple of kayak stores today and tried out some various arrangements, and so detailed my findings. I was just about to hit send, when I hit a wrong key or something, and lost the whole message. Drat! Well, guess it saves some bandwidth. I don't have the inspiration to type it all out again. I will say briefly that Matt is correct with his hip and thigh firmness point. I simply come from it at a different angle (literally), as I much prefer the European and K-1 approach, where the knees raise up more, rather than having them splayed-out under thigh supports. Guys like Greg Barton prefer that, over the WW type fit, for efficient paddling. Add this position with secure bracing potential, and I have the best of all all worlds, minus fast exits. It is nothing to do with the actual knee-tube pod, as that whole knee position could be maintained with lots of foam, etc. The pod simply does that for me, and adds storage out of free space, and reduces cockpit water volume. There is the forced, short answer. I also like my smaller spray skirt as it has less potential to leak, and pools less water. I could go on about these points, but don't want to incur the wrath of the "grumpy guru" :-) As far as the picture of cockpit testing, I'll pass it buy Sea Kayaker first for their "last glance", for money, before I throw it out to you sick puppies (Vince wants it for a screen saver - sick man, sick). DL Peter Treby wrote: > Final word? Let me squeeze these few in... > Doug, I've scanned the "research paper" too. What do you think of the point > that the prime importance in cockpit fitting is to fit hips and thighs > firmly in, rather than the knee end? You seem to emphasize your knee tube's > importance. > And, for general entertainment, is there a photo somewhere of you dry > testing cockpit fit, upside down with the boat in slings and you in the > cockpit? I'd like to see that. It inspires thoughts of a dry-land rolling > teaching machine. Maybe an obsolete boat, maybe someone's beat up Nordkapp, > say, could be mounted on a lengthwise axle. Learners could be strapped in, > and the basic motions of rolling taught. When proficient enough, the rolling > machine, mounted as it would be in a drained swimming pool, would be > flooded, and the learner would have to really roll. Survivors would be > deemed partially seaworthy. They would be granted a BCU Silver Snorkel. > And wait, maybe these rolling machines could be fitted with coin operated > boxes, and placed in shopping malls for kids to play in. Say in downtown > Angmagssalik. What do you think? > > PT *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Doug Lloyd[SMTP:dlloyd_at_telus.net] > > The bottom line? I'm out on a limb, with my paddling, so please > disregard all comments about the superiority of small cockpits. The > evolution of cockpit design has not gone that way, and Matt rightly > points out my flawed thinking - but only if he thinks I'm recommending > small cockpits to others. I'm not. I just wanted to get some thoughts > with the baited post. I recommend small cockpits only to myself. > I have become very opinionated about the ocean cockpit on my Anas Acuta and, now, the Greenland skin boat I just built. In addition to all of the valid points identified by Jack and Doug and others, I find that due to my very short legs nothing provides bracing security like the small cockpit. The amount of control I have in it is probably triple what it is in a "fitted" keyhole cockpit. There is no substitute (for me). Debbie Reeves Sandy Hook, NJ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd[SMTP:dlloyd_at_telus.net] The bottom line? I'm out on a limb, with my paddling, so please disregard all comments about the superiority of small cockpits. The evolution of cockpit design has not gone that way, and Matt rightly points out my flawed thinking - but only if he thinks I'm recommending small cockpits to others. I'm not. I just wanted to get some thoughts with the baited post. I recommend small cockpits only to myself. "Reeves, Debbie (Debbie)" <dreeves_at_lucent.com> writes: I have become very opinionated about the ocean cockpit on my Anas Acuta and, now, the Greenland skin boat I just built. In addition to all of the valid points identified by Jack and Doug and others, I find that due to my very short legs nothing provides bracing security like the small cockpit. The amount of control I have in it is probably triple what it is in a "fitted" keyhole cockpit. There is no substitute (for me). Ralph Hoehn: I can resist no longer: I use carlings in one of my (rollable) folding, fitted to hug my hips, run over my thighs and let me hook my knees under the outside. Perfect fit! Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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