Re: [Paddlewise] (long) rolling with inflatable aids, was self-righting devices

Jed wrote:
"Rolling with some kind of inflatable device is no easier than rolling
with a paddle. Best, I think, to learn about all of your self-rescue
options and practice them all often." 

I agree and disagree with this statement.  The advice to learn and 
practice is a good one!  I also agree that you need to know how to 
roll to use this and other similar inflatable devices in an effortless, 
smooth way (you need to know it even if you can't do it reliable).
But it is for sure easier to roll up with a inflated paddle float on your 
paddle or this roll aid thing on you paddle or on your side than with 
a paddle alone unless you have a roll -but than you wouldn't need 
the roll aid anyway.  You will get back up with this aids were you 
wouldn't get up with the paddle roll alone.

In my eyes the problem here is,  referring to the original posting of 
kcd, the boat she uses.  A recreational kayak with a huge cockpit 
and no sprayskirt -or do you have a nylon one and you just want a 
neoprene one.  
#1 This type of kayak with a wide beam and roomy, boxy hull 
shape isn't easy to roll, and is for sure a bad choice to learn to roll 
for that reason alone. I doubt that one can learn to roll in such a 
boat without a good instructor and really good technique.  
#2 The large cockpit size in most kayaks of this type is a 
additional problem.  Somebody who knows how to roll and with 
good technique could somehow (extended paddle, sculling) get a 
recreational kayak back up, IF he can manage it to stay in the 
cockpit while being inverted.  There is not much to hold you in the 
kayak, and a good fit in the boat is one of the secrets of a reliable 
roll.  Maybe SOT style knee straps would work here?

I am far from being an expert roller, but my advice for kcd would be 
to learn to roll in a other boat, preferably a whitewater kayak, with 
the help of a instructor or somebody who knows how to roll.  
Teaching yourself is not likely to work very well and for sure not in 
the rec kayak unless you have a very high frustration threshold.  
Once you got a roll in an "easy" to roll kayak try to do the 
transition to your kayak.  At least you know then that the very 
likely failure of  the first dozens rolling attempts is linked to the rec 
kayak and not to the not knowing how to do it in general (it took 
me several hours to get the roll from a ww-kayak over in my 
seakayak, with short test in a ww boat just to see if I still could do 
it).  If the roll doesn't work in your rec ship at all, try to roll with a 
paddle float on your paddle. That shouldn't be to hard because you 
know by then how to move through the roll. Gradually deflate the 
float till you might get to the point were you don't need it anymore. 
If that doesn't work, it will with the inflated float but maybe not 
without it, try something comparable in size and buoyancy with the 
roll aid you have in mind.  If you come up by using this portable 
pool wall, try to do it with an inflated paddle float in your hands .  If 
you can do it with the paddle float alone, why not carry a inflated 
paddle float strapped to your deck and save the money for the roll 
aid?  This idea/technique is >1000 years old, the Greenlanders and 
other kayaking cultures used inflated bladders for that purpose (and 
in one of the past seakayaker issues was an add showing a 
neoprene "seal bladder" imitation for that purpose).
During all that training you will at least develop a real good feeling 
for your boat, which benefits control of it and comfort in it.

My 0.02$

Ulli


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