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From: Paul Murtaugh <murtaugh_at_stat.washington.edu>
subject: [Paddlewise] ignorant surf boat question
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:41:16 -0800 (PST)
Hi,

I'm a mostly sea kayaker who enjoys ocean surfing
and occasional easy river runs.  Much to the amusement
of the modern whitewater community, I've been using
an old New Wave Sleek for surfing.  Recently I bought
a used Riot Glide, because I wanted to see what a
planing hull is like.  After a few times surfing, I
haven't really figured it out.  The biggest difference
I can see between the Sleek and the Glide is that the
Glide tends to bury its nose in the wave, causing a
capsize, a submersion that takes me off the wave face,
or, in one case, an inadvertent ender (which I admit
was sort of fun).

What am I missing here?  Is the Glide only useful for
doing tricks?  Will it get stuck in holes if I take it
down a river?  Is that the point?  :)

-Paul



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From: Mark Mastalski <mastalski_at_engr.wisc.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] ignorant surf boat question
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:33:31 -0600
There's no doubt the drive behind today's whitewater boats having planing 
(flat) hulls is for play.  When I say "play" I'm not strictly talking about 
doing enders, cartwheels, loops etc.  But the big advantage a planing hull 
has over a displacement (round) hull boat is for spinning on a 
wave.  Today's planing hull whitewater boats are magnificent for spinning 
and extremely quick to turn.  I started kayaking in a Dagger Crossfire and 
Response (both displacement type) and have now moved on to boats with 
planing hulls, such as the Prijon Luv, Wave Sport Big EZ, and most of the 
Riot boats.  Today, pretty much the only boats being sold with displacement 
hulls are creek boats.  This is because in technical creeking the 
displacement hull aids with boofing (launching the boat off rocks, etc.) 
and it softens the landing after a big drop, i.e. waterfall.

One important thing to remember is that just because a boat has a planing 
hull, this does not mean it will get it's bow stuck in the water, such as 
described by Paul.  The hull cross-section, planing vs. displacement, 
really has nothing to do with it.  This is called perling, and the two most 
important aspects determining whether a boat will perl is overall hull 
design (not cross-section) from bow to stern, and volume of the 
boat.  Obviously a boat with less volume in the bow will tend to be forced 
under the water, resulting in a fun "play" move if initiated by the 
paddler, or a loss of control of the boat (if inadvertant).  The designs of 
planing hull whitewater boats are improving dramatically every year, and 
some of today's boats play and river run very well.  Others are strictly 
park and play type boats, lacking the necessary volume to be what I'd 
consider river safe for many paddlers.  Obviously a planing hull design 
will not have the "punch" of a displacement hull for getting through holes, 
but that's part of the point.

I'd like to end on this point, not saying I'm an expert in all of this, but 
just what is happening.  I work for a large paddlesports store where we 
stock twenty different models of whitewater boats.  Not one boat we stock 
has a displacement hull.  Right or wrong, this is where the whitewater 
designs are going.  This debate will go on forever, displacement vs. 
planing hull.  I think it's a great thing to discuss because many people 
have different opinions regarding boat design, what works and what doesn't.

Just my $.02.  Happy paddling!

Mark Mastalski

At 07:41 PM 2/27/01 , Paul Murtaugh wrote:
>What am I missing here?  Is the Glide only useful for
>doing tricks?  Will it get stuck in holes if I take it
>down a river?  Is that the point?  :)

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From: Steve Scherrer <Flatpick_at_teleport.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] ignorant surf boat question
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:27:54 -0800
Another advantage of a planning hull is the fact that they are very stable
and are very easy to tilt downstream, as in a peelout, or downwave as in a
surf cutback.   All we teach the beginner to do is LOOK downstream as they
peel.  The flat hull takes care of any tilt.  The *JUST REMEMBER TO LEAN
DOWNSTREAM* command went out a number of years ago.  It just ain't necessary
with a modern hull.

Steve Scherrer
aldercreek.com



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