RE: [Paddlewise] Wet exits and spray deck removal

There were a few good comments by a few good people on the noted
subject. Peter had said:

<snip>.
I did some further wet exits without the grab loop this morning wearing
a
cag top, with a single layer neoprene waistband. It was still possible
to
exit with both the exit-through-the-tube method, and the
hand-down-the-tube
method.
<snip>

Given that the most likely place a skirt will normally slip off
(unintentionally during an implosion, etc.) is at the coaming above your
thigh area (that long section of the cockpit with the least amount of
tension and hence the easiest place for the skirt to slip off), I still
think the one good option (in extremis), and one I've tried, is to
muster all the adrenaline possible (which shouldn't be too impossible)
and commence your wet exit pushing as hard as you can away from your
seat. If you have to let go of your paddle, so be it. Perhaps you have a
spare or have it tethered. Then, with maximum tension on the
aforementioned area and skirt, you may be able to slip a finger under
your coaming (if there is enough clearance) and finish peeling it off
enough to get a wholesale grip on the skirt. This doesn't work with my
new skirt (a double-latex rand).

When I custom ordered my Phoenix skirt, I had to special order the rand
with the inner latex. Both placing it on and getting it off are
difficult. The agent for Phoenix here in the US was very concerned,
indicating that the custom configuration was only sold to folks well
screened, and generally not made available. He indicated that death due
to entrapment was a very real possibility, and went so far as to cite a
couple of examples (non-specific to his import company, but incidents
from the UK -- I wish I could remember the details for Matt).

The first thing I did with the skirt was to take the nylon loop (flat
webbing) and wrap brightly colored electrical tape, tightly around the
entire length, creating a much more easily pulled loop, one that wasn't
subject to water flattening and easy entrapment under the skirt during
fast skirt placements. I have noticed since then that most of the more
serious paddlers do the same thing with their skirt loops (even some
latte drinkers).

Since my Trial Island incident, I have worked hard at dog paddling
sideways, while upside-down, which provides enough head-out-of-water
placement, such that it is fairly easy to get some required air before
succumbing to gravity again, and inverting over. You can then try to
release your skirt again (I bailed at Trial, in the end, when my air
finally gave out, so know the imminence of suffocation and the pain of
lack of air). I would think that this skill alone, would be most useful
in a number of emergency situations, and would encourage everyone to
practice it when they are ready (going over and coming up for a quick
gasp of air). I've also been able to practice doing this several times,
successively going back over and undoing my PFD, until it is finally
off, where I can then use it as an aid to righting myself. My hand roll
sucks big time, and I submit to the list than many things that can be
done in the pool, don't work so well at sea. Even the above has little
chance of success in really cold water. But the more things you try -
and try to get competent at, the more things you have to draw upon in an
emergency. Throwing your paddle as far as you can, then rolling over and
dog-paddling or hand-over-handing until you reach the paddle, then
rolling back up is another excellent skill builder. If you are going to
paddle in water like the couple that died in Door County did, you need
to practice these skills.

Kevin said:

<snip>
 I can tell you right now,
with nary a thought required, that given the size of my ass, the
thickness
of my double layer drytop, and the tightness of my skirt tunnel, there
is no
way that I am going to wiggle out of the skirt when upside down.
<snip>

Well, I'm sure Kevin isn't trying to tell us he is a big ass, but he
does have a point that what works for some may not work for others.
That's why I wish the Aussies would get off their high-horse about their
re-enter-and-roll-don't-pump-just-paddle pedestal. North American
kayaks, many anyway, just have too much volume to do that easily, and
the amount of water scooped up is incredible. That's a regional
difference perhaps, let alone the multitude of differences associated
with individual preferences for dealing with an emergency. Some like two
part dry suites, some like one, right Kev? One thing about Paddlewise is
that we do get to hear all the different view points normally, and for
that, I stay subscribed and enjoy. And when someone says "This is the
way I do it" I normally do not get overly censorial unless they add "It
is the only way". By not saying "It _isn't_ the only way, just my way" I
don't assume automatically that they mean it is the only way.

And Matt said:

<snip>
Alan Byde reported on deaths in Britain due to entrapment many years
ago. He
wrote a poem about it and blamed the manufacturers for using overly wide

cockpit rims, as I recall. Having almost succumbed this way myself the
second time I was ever in a kayak I can attest to the very real danger
with
new paddlers and/or new equipment.
<snip>

Alan had a lot of good things to say. Logical safety commentary and
poetry were not always his strong points. And if anything, narrow rims
simply allow the skirt to come off at the least amount of provocation,
meaning folks would have to tie the shock cord really tight, such that
this was really unsafe as the narrow rims also curled under themselves a
fair bit, really trapping the skirt underneath; and that can be a
serious safety issue too. I'm cutting the cockpit rim out of my wife's
British McNulty Huntsman for this very reason, and custom making one a
bit wider, flatter, with, yes Matt, a bit bigger cockpit opening. (I am
also recessing the new cockpit rim at the aft portion, with input from
Vince, sort of like the new Gulfstream. This will allow better layback
maneuvers, as well as permit easier entrance into the cockpit). Yes Rex,
I do like playing with fiberglass.

Matt also said:

I would suggest that those who think a Reentry and Roll using a
paddlefloat
is faster than an outrigger paddle float rescue have not also timed the
extra time it takes to fasten the spraydeck and pump out the additional
water that the Reenter and Roll scoops up (because the paddlers weight
is in
the kayak while it is being righted).
<snip>

Matt, there IS NO ARGUMENT HERE FROM ANYONE WHO IS WORTH THEIR SALT! But
the R&R is faster for the proficient paddler used to employing this
method, where the need to get back up instantly is paramount. I've used
it in the surf zone, in clapotis at the base of cliffs, and in tide
races, etc., where the object is to get away quickly from the danger
zone. After that point, the only comparison times that accrue benefit to
the R&R, are with folks who are able to pump/stabilize-reattatch quickly
and efficiently. Most can't compete with the overall time, compared to
the PF -- and  even the PF compared to the fixed deck PF (ultimately
producing overall the best recovery).

Peter said:
<snip>
If a knife is quickly available, I wonder if slitting the deck is an
option.
The knife would need to be sharp. Neoprene is a little difficult to cut
without a panic situation. There is a risk of wounding yourself, and of
course the deck loses function. So that's probably just a stunt for the
movie "Doug Lloyd, The True Story".

Peter Peter Peter,
All you need to do is cut the neoprene where it goes over the coaming,
as this will instantly create a gap from the releasing tension. You will
also avoid cutting your thigh this way. We have discussed knife usage in
an emergency before on this list, and most agreed it would be very
difficult to hold your breath long enough to actually deploy your knife,
then use it successfully. After the last round of PW discussions on
knives,  I took a wooden letter opener that I had to the lake that
summer and played with simulating a variety of emergencies (I have also
practiced deploying either one of my real knives underwater, so as to
practice that phase, but then substitute the wooden knife so as not to
hurt myself). The knife floats so when I panic, I can let it go, bail or
whatever, and practice some more (Yes, this is what I do at the lake on
my summer holidays, okay. Wanna see my home movies, The True Story Of
How I Spent My Summer Vacation? I thought not). Again, practicing the
skill of dog-paddling up for air is an underrated skill, and a place
where using a knife would benefit from a quick shot of air before
deployment. I noticed at Harvey's presentation, the Greenland paddlers
all had this skill of coming up for air momentarily to prolong time
inverted. I also don't carry a solid PF on my rear deck, which would
negate some of these issues, but do not wish the increased windage that
said device presents.

And finally Scott said:

<snip>
I feel that Doug Loyd embodies the ultimate example of overkill.
But at least I understand his reasons behind it. Doug likes to push the
envelope in some fairly extreme conditions. What kills me is these
weekend
paddlers who insist on being expedition equipped for paddling across the
bay
to get a latte.
<snip>

Scott, I resemble that remark. Well, two "L's", unless hypothermia is
settin in, then its "Doug LLLLLLLLLLLLLLoyd"! How come my name keeps
coming up so much on this list? Better go back to more lurking :-) As
far as the overkill thing, you may have a bit of a point. And I would
say that one is often better to spend money and time on skills
upgrading, than on a lot of redundant equipment. I for one just like all
my stuff, and have employed most of it some time or another. Chris
Cunningham did an editorial awhile ago, implying that all the stuff he
carries on even a little outing, are pointers to past minor episodes,
and a reminder of same. I've had a lot of "episodes" -- things go
sideways. The last time I was plucked out of the water, the Coast Guard
said,"Well, he seems to know what he's doing" as they turned to the
other member of the team that was suffering, and even officially
commented that I was well prepared and outfitted, unlike many of the
paddlers they run across on the remote coast. I remember getting ribbed
a few years ago for my big divers knife on my deck, tethered and all. I
can't thick of the number of times I've actually had to use it over the
years, it been so many, after getting tangled in kelp in heavy, steep
breaking swell, both surf and off-shore. Overkill? Its underkill to me.
As far as expedition equipped for across bay trips, I have no problem
with that, as long as the paddlers have all the basic skills in place
such that the back-up equipment isn't needed. Now people who take coffee
making apparatus on expedition trips, that's overkill! Safe paddling
Scott.

DL

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