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From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_telus.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc.
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 23:55:24 -0800
<snip and rip>

Hopefully Doug Lloyd will also respond.  If you look carefully at my
photos
from the trip in October, you'll see the flag stand he rigged for his
boat
for at least daytime visibility in the Victoria harbor.  I'll resend the
URL
if you'd like.  He was bristling with distress flares etc. - nah, we
won't
go there...

Natalie Wiest
Galveston TX
----------------

I've done a fair bit of night paddling over the years, for various
reasons. Along shore, close to town, a certain genteel voyeurism ensues
as you pass waterfront homes and garden parties in the summer. In these
cases, total darkness was essential for invisibility, with a handy
waterproof flashlight for CG compliance.

Rough water paddling at night was another enjoyable activity. Exiting
and entering harbors to said conditions was the most dangerous phase.
The protocol was to light myself up with white strobe light and a
headlamp on high. Batteries sure fade quickly on high. I remember almost
being run over by a small fish boat pulling in for the night, when he
suddenly changed course. I had forgotten the boat would make the turn
for the fisherman's wharf. Makes sense they would suddenly turn in
there, but I figured they should have seen me. I never did see anyone
visible in the window. I was much more terrified than when out in the
waves at night, without the traffic. Don't assume you will be seen.

Tide races at night can be a real thrill and an ultimate Darwin
Challenge for a solo sea survivor episode. I played in a standing wave
in Active Pass one moon less evening, on a big Spring tide, off Helen
Point. I let the Sidney to Tawassen ferry pass, then rode the standing
waves that were caught by the 6 knot current, enjoying the thrill of
burying the bow up over the spray deck to my abs, then popping back out
as the Nordkapp's buoyancy reasserted itself - all in the dark and done
by feel. I wore a white strobe on my arm, secured by a Tekna
articulating velcro strap, slightly astern on the bicep. The low
intensity strobe emitted enough light to make me visible, and arm
movement from paddling heightened the visibility. I had reflective tape
all over the paddle blades. Being pitch black, I was navigating by local
knowledge and ambient light from whatever source was present, but I
didn't want my vision impeded in any way whatsoever, so the small strobe
was my best compromise. The whitewater jumbling at the surface made
navigating possible, and it is all you can reaaly sea, along with the
roar of the race. It really is the ultimate in adventure  - best done
prior to marriage and family. I unfortunately forgot about the
inter-island ferry that sailed on an ad hoc time schedule. The two big
ferries pass in deep channel in Active Pass, so are predictable). I
heard the horn blast and ran for cover as best I could. Within seconds,
the ferry was upon me, coming around the corner at full steam into the
current. I flashed my blades in an attempt to gain recognition, but was
spun about with no sculling stabilization. It was useless trying to gain
attention, and the ferry has no manouverability anyway. Paddling
desperately at an acute ferry-glide angle, the whirlwind arm action
flung off the strobe, just as the cold steel hull slid by. I could just
see the deck hand, high above, with search light peering into the dark
looking for pesky sportsfisherman. Safe in the back eddy near IR land,
heart in mouth, I watched the errie glow of the strobe, as its
brilliance subsided into the murky darkness, one blip at a time.

Most of my night paddling these days is done due to late return times.
By default, I carry an assortment of flashlights, both on my PFD, in my
PFD, and in my fore deck accessible day hatch (where I keep the
headlamp- Princeton Tech). The perimeter of the kayak is defined easily
by quality marine reflective tape, easily identifying me as a sea kayak
if any light is cast my way, along with the flag that is also bordered
with reflective tape (sewn on). I carry flares, readily accessible, and
also hand held flares like the ones you use at the side of a road
hazard. Laugh if you must. Outwitting the Darwin Award is a
technology-intensive enterprise.

Most of my night paddling is done in more remote locations nowadays,
away from vessel traffic, ferries, powerboaters and all sources of
man-made light and noise. I told Jackie about some night paddling I was
attempting last year, which proved a lot of fun in the end, but I
restricted myself to advantageous tides and full-moon conditions and
moderate wind (not easy to get on Juan De Fuca in summer at night, some
years). This is where the magic is for me now. Silently slicing by
steely-dark granite cliffs, listening to the sound of surf and swell
where it meets land, spooked occasionaly by a surfacing seal, and then
waiting for the sun to rise, burnishing the same cliffs with a golden
glow that speaks of an eternal hope for what often seems like an
impossibly hopeless future for mankind. No lights are used (in terms of
being turned on), as they are not needed for these trips.

Paddling at night in Manhattan Harbor -- now THAT sound dangerous to me!

DL - one paddler's experience

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From: <JSpinner_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc.
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:42:05 EST
In a message dated 3/6/01 9:54:13 AM, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com writes:

<< But since the LED scene is an evolving one, I am wondering

what handle anyone might have on their effectiveness in being seen on a

kayak paddling after dark. >>

My primary thought is that paddling with others who bright lights on their 
boats or selves is that I am blinded to some degree by the lights. I can't 
see the rock or tree branch or even unlit boats I'm actually paddling with 
past most lights. I wonder about a type of lighting that won't increase the 
danger to fellow paddlers. The other comment is the obvious, that the higher 
the light is, the more visible it will be to the boats around the 
person/people.

Joan Spinner
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From: D. & A. Mille <mille_at_ismi.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc.
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:00:24 -0500
An ever present lurker, I couldn't refrain from this discussion. I have
successfully utilized electroluminesence to light a paddle shaft with the
traditional red and green navigation lights. The batteries (2 AA) last about
12 hours and produce a light that can be seen a quite a distance without
causing night blindness. It is also readily seen due to the continual motion
of the paddle. The whole assembly was added to a Werner hollow shaft touring
paddle. The wires, batteries and connectors are located inside the paddle
shaft. I only needed to drill two 1/8" diameter holes for the wires. I
backed the electroluminesence wires with aluminum duct tape (increased
reflection) and covered the assembly with clear epoxy. It added about 10oz
to the weight of the paddle.

Al Mille

Now you know what my MBA Marketing Class project was last fall.



----- Original Message -----
From: <JSpinner_at_aol.com>
To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc.


> In a message dated 3/6/01 9:54:13 AM, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com writes:
>
> << But since the LED scene is an evolving one, I am wondering
>
> what handle anyone might have on their effectiveness in being seen on a
>
> kayak paddling after dark. >>
>
> My primary thought is that paddling with others who bright lights on their
> boats or selves is that I am blinded to some degree by the lights. I can't
> see the rock or tree branch or even unlit boats I'm actually paddling with
> past most lights. I wonder about a type of lighting that won't increase
the
> danger to fellow paddlers. The other comment is the obvious, that the
higher
> the light is, the more visible it will be to the boats around the
> person/people.
>
> Joan Spinner
>
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> here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
> responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
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>
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>

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From: Bob Denton <BDenton_at_aquagulf.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc.
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:23:28 -0500
One thing to look at is paddling clothing made from "Illuminight" sp??
fabric. I use it for cycling at night and it is very effective in reflecting
any light shone on the stuff.

It can be incorporated in different types of fabric including nylon shell
material as well as Polartec. Check out www.performancebike.com for
examples.

I have a vest made of this material.

cu



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net
[mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of ralph diaz
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:46 AM
To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net
Subject: [Paddlewise] Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc.


Rec.boats.paddle.touring has been having a discussion on LEDs but it seems
mainly confined to using LED white lights around a campsite for reading,
cooking, searchiing through gear bags.  We have touched on the general
subject before. But since the LED scene is an evolving one, I am wonderiing
what handle anyone might have on their effectiveness in being seen on a
kayak paddliing after dark.

I am particularly interested in LED visibility performance in situations in
which there is a lot of background "noise" in the sense of city lights etc.
that may hid the beam of light emitting from a kayak.

We are now in the beginning stages of a pilot program in which we will be
testing various lighting schemes on kayaks in New York Harbor.  This is
being done in cooperation with the US Coast Guard and local commercial
interests (some reps from the Sandy Hook Pilots Association; possibly other
local operators).  On the kayaking side it will several local kayakers
(including me) and the Manhattan Kayak Company (a local touring and
instruction company that does run evening tours on the Hudson River off of
Manhattan--Eric Stiller is a principal of the company).  Sometimes such
initiatives never get anywhere but, if it does happen, what it will involve
is several kayakers with radios and various lighting devices.  In the test
stage, operators on various size vessels will try to spot the kayakers'
lighting schemes under different situations of total darkness and background
light "noise."  The Coast Guard will also be trying to spot them and will
secure the safety of the testing area through radio announcements and
patrols.

Again, this is preliminary.  What we hope will come out of this are some
realistic tests on a formal basis in various conditions.  The results should
be a rating of different lighting systems and recommendations.  I think that
existing type lights and possibly LEDs will do the job.  It would be good to
know which.  But if nothing is on the market today that fulfills the need,
we would then approach manufacturers with a wish list of light devices they
might produce as prototypes or modifications of existing items.

If you have any ideas on this, let me know.

Oh, another thing.  We are trying to establish lighting recommendations for
the following categories:

1.  Just-in-case lights for a paddler to always have with him/her just in
case they get caught in low light situations at the end of the day because
of delays caused by winds or illness.

2.  Lights for an individual to have when he or she sets out deliberately
for a night paddle trip.

3.  Lighting schemes that a group may want to employ as it paddles as a
bloc.

ralph diaz
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


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From: Bob Denton <BDenton_at_aquagulf.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc.
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:23:28 -0500
One thing to look at is paddling clothing made from "Illuminight" sp??
fabric. I use it for cycling at night and it is very effective in reflecting
any light shone on the stuff.

It can be incorporated in different types of fabric including nylon shell
material as well as Polartec. Check out www.performancebike.com for
examples.

I have a vest made of this material.

cu



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net
[mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of ralph diaz
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:46 AM
To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net
Subject: [Paddlewise] Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc.


Rec.boats.paddle.touring has been having a discussion on LEDs but it seems
mainly confined to using LED white lights around a campsite for reading,
cooking, searchiing through gear bags.  We have touched on the general
subject before. But since the LED scene is an evolving one, I am wonderiing
what handle anyone might have on their effectiveness in being seen on a
kayak paddliing after dark.

I am particularly interested in LED visibility performance in situations in
which there is a lot of background "noise" in the sense of city lights etc.
that may hid the beam of light emitting from a kayak.

We are now in the beginning stages of a pilot program in which we will be
testing various lighting schemes on kayaks in New York Harbor.  This is
being done in cooperation with the US Coast Guard and local commercial
interests (some reps from the Sandy Hook Pilots Association; possibly other
local operators).  On the kayaking side it will several local kayakers
(including me) and the Manhattan Kayak Company (a local touring and
instruction company that does run evening tours on the Hudson River off of
Manhattan--Eric Stiller is a principal of the company).  Sometimes such
initiatives never get anywhere but, if it does happen, what it will involve
is several kayakers with radios and various lighting devices.  In the test
stage, operators on various size vessels will try to spot the kayakers'
lighting schemes under different situations of total darkness and background
light "noise."  The Coast Guard will also be trying to spot them and will
secure the safety of the testing area through radio announcements and
patrols.

Again, this is preliminary.  What we hope will come out of this are some
realistic tests on a formal basis in various conditions.  The results should
be a rating of different lighting systems and recommendations.  I think that
existing type lights and possibly LEDs will do the job.  It would be good to
know which.  But if nothing is on the market today that fulfills the need,
we would then approach manufacturers with a wish list of light devices they
might produce as prototypes or modifications of existing items.

If you have any ideas on this, let me know.

Oh, another thing.  We are trying to establish lighting recommendations for
the following categories:

1.  Just-in-case lights for a paddler to always have with him/her just in
case they get caught in low light situations at the end of the day because
of delays caused by winds or illness.

2.  Lights for an individual to have when he or she sets out deliberately
for a night paddle trip.

3.  Lighting schemes that a group may want to employ as it paddles as a
bloc.

ralph diaz
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


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From: ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Relativism
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:34:38 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Lloyd" <dlloyd_at_telus.net> .
>
> Paddling at night in Manhattan Harbor -- now THAT sound dangerous to me!

And here I thought what you did was dangerous!

Many years ago, I came back to a launch site in Northern Manhattan quite
late in the day.  The site, on a small beach (yeah we have them in
Manhattant) at the edge of a park in what is now a tough neighborhood, had
some local toughs smoking joints or shooting up.  I was alone but not too
frightened since I believe I was imposing enough looking, covered with salt,
with a paddle in one hand and a sheath knife hung Rambo-style on my PFD.

However, I don't think any of my paraphenalia or salty tough look meant
anything to these guys who were probably carrying an arsenal of weapons
under their coats.  What did was where I was emerging from...the water.  One
of them came up to me and said "You've been out there in that little thing?
You wouldn't catch my fxxking black ass out there, no way!!!"  They quickly
left what they felt was a dangerous lunatic to knock down his Klepper in
solitude.  Need I mention that it was a record time disassembly in case they
changed their minds and came back!!!

ralph diaz
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


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From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc.
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:39:22 -0800 (PST)
While I hope that none of these tests will lead to additional future
regulations, I salute the combined teamwork and effort of the
government, commercial interests, and individuals involved with your
project.  Note: I don't advocate _additional_ regulations, but I insist
that we as paddlers have an obligation to follow the same rules as
everyone else.  (And I hope I haven't opened a can of worms with this
statement!)

If some good recommendations come out of this study, and some
manufacturers can be enticed to produce lighting products that are
commercially attractive to paddlers, you will have hit a home run!

>If you have any ideas on this, let me know.

I am consistently amazed at how bright and clear the new LED brakelight
clusters are on some commercial trucks (FedEx seems to have most of
their fleet outfitted, if anyone hasn't noticed these yet).

Also, many left-turn traffic signals now are green LED's.  As you said
in your later post, brightness of LED's is possible at levels
previously only found in incandescent lighting--the problem is cost.

I know that LED power consumption is significantly less than that of
incandescent, but wonder how much less is possible.  12V at 5A, or 60
watts is not a problem in a car or truck, but would quickly degrade a
kayak battery (especially when you don't have an alternator providing
continuous power).

I wonder if LED's are available that, when clustered, would have an
acceptably low power consumption, yet sufficient brightness to be
noticed.  I'd love to find such a system--I might even consider
glassing banks of red and green LED's into the bow of my next wood
kayak (LED's also have a much greater service life than that of
incandescent bulbs). A cluster of 360* visible lights on the end of a
removable fiberglass whip on the back deck would be great!  If the
wiring could be sufficiently protected from water, such a permanent
system might really be feasible.

If you have an electric bilge pump system, an LED lighting system
should n't provide so much draw as to render useless the important
safety backup of the pump.  I'm thinking that multiple sets of
electrical systems would be impractical--one sufficiently large gel cel
battery should be able to provide all the power you'd need.

>Oh, another thing.  We are trying to establish lighting
recommendations 
>for the following categories:
>
>1.  Just-in-case lights for a paddler to always have with him/her just

>in case they get caught in low light situations at the end of the day 
>because of delays caused by winds or illness.

A waterproof super-bright LED flashlight, maybe with some sort of
removable mount.  If you're out after dark with a bum arm, you don't
want to have to use your only good arm to hold up a light--you need to
be paddling, or stabilizing your boat if you're being towed!

>2.  Lights for an individual to have when he or she sets out 
>deliberately for a night paddle trip.

I think a lighting scheme like I described toward the beginning of my
post would be great, if it were affordable (I'd pay $60-80 without the
battery) as well as rugged and efficient.

>3.  Lighting schemes that a group may want to employ as it paddles as
a
>bloc.

I like the moving blue/yellow/white light schemes.  You could even
employ a low-brightness solid-colored LED in a case similar to a flare.
Clipped to the shoulder of a PFD, you could have blue for leaders and
yellow for group members.  If it were low enough in intensity, I see no
reason why red and green couldn't be included--if the light is only
visible for 20-30 yards, you're less likely to be mistaken for a nav.
light.

Shawn

Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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From: <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc.
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:22:01 EST
In a message dated 03/06/2001 11:51:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu writes:

<< the red/green split light for the bow.  >>

they also make red/green self-adhesive cyalume lights.  they have singles and 
doubles, i believe.  Seems to me that the disadvantage is the same as for the 
green sticks...you can turn them off and on at will.  guess this would fall 
under the...if you get caught out at night category.

sandy kramer
miami
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From: <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc.
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:24:01 EST
In a message dated 03/06/2001 1:10:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
mille_at_ismi.net writes:

<< successfully utilized electroluminesence to light a paddle shaft with the
 traditional red and green navigation lights. >>

interesting point...i guess the self-adhesive cyalume lights (they came in 
circles as well as "sticks") could be stuck on the paddle blades

sandy kramer
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From: Arthur Hebert <seacajun_at_gs.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc.
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:43:20 -0600
How about a donut shape cyalume stick that could double as a drip ring?

-----Original Message-----
From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>


>interesting point...i guess the self-adhesive cyalume lights (they came in
>circles as well as "sticks") could be stuck on the paddle blades
>
>sandy kramer


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