Wes, if it would not upset the prosecution of the PWC driver, you might consider contacting your local newspaper with the offer of an already written feature article. If you can provide a picture or two (maybe the three of you standing to an upside down kayak, or kayak full of water in the reeds) that might help. Newspapers are more receptive to that approach than you might think. Fortunately, all of the PWC drivers I have been close to (in TX during the past year & 1/2) have been courteous and slowed to avoid causing a wake if they were in a channel with me or close. I guess those Texans are pretty good folks. --Mel-- =^..^= Cell: (937) 232-6472 Pager: (888) 704-4169 http://www.mellammers.net http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Foldableseayakers foldableseayakers_at_yahoogroups.com mellammers_at_mellammers.net mslammers_at_earthlink.net [demime 0.92b removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Wes, if it would not upset the prosecution of the PWC driver, you might > consider contacting your local newspaper with the offer of an already > written feature article. If you can provide a picture or two (maybe the > three of you standing to an upside down kayak, or kayak full of water in the > reeds) that might help. Newspapers are more receptive to that approach than > you might think. This is one of the many good ideas coming up in PaddleWise. But I want to get to another thought. Isn't it amazing that a sport, jetskiing, that is relatively new (I can't remember when the sport started taking off) and has reached such huge numbers of advocates (the number of jetskis and jetskiers greatly dwarfs the number of sea kayaks and sea kayakers) who have shelled out mucho money and supported a large industry that has done extensive advertising, created a whole bunch of magazines (several of them individually have a circulation that is higher than all the paddling publications combined), etc. is probably on the brink of being effectively shut down or very seriously curtailed. That total ban it faces in national parks, the many state-level strictures in the form of licenses, mandatory training, etc. all are narrowing where a jetskier can go and how he or she can operate. I am not feeling sorry for jetskiers, mind you. But there are lessons here: 1. If you put out a recreational machine that is a high polluter such as a jet ski, eventually the world will come crushing down on you. The industry has only itself to blame for this current predicament it faces. It has been stalling for years in cleaning up the machines. Only now, faced with that national park ban and other curtailments, is the industry now saying it will act to reduce noise and environmental pollution. 2. If you foster an image of hi-jinx and reckless behavior (which the ads for jetskis almost always do) in order to sell you product, you help create a good number of reckless operators. This leads to annoying others and also to a large number of deaths on the water. This then leads to the type of bans that are hurting the industry. Again, the industry only has itself to blame. I always thought that the jetski lobby was so strong that nothing would ever come up to hinder where and how the machines operate. So I am surprised how many states and municipalities as well as the feds are tightening the noose around the necks of the industry and its customers. I think as kayakers we should take notice. While our boats are not polluters in themselves, we can have an impact on the environment in other ways or have an annoying effects on others. Issues like landing on private property and not watching how we treat it or close encounters with marine life which is covered by federal statutes in the US among other places, or paddling without concern for the rules of the road causing problems for commercial maritime users of the waters. (It's a theme I get into some of the Dispatches I do for Canoe & Kayak magazine; one has a photo of a sign at a NYC luxury yacht marina that says "No Jetskis, No Kayakers" i.e. lumping us together with the dreaded jetskier!) By and large, our industry is more aware of such things and fosters safe, responsible behavior (180 degrees opposite of what the jet ski industry does, I feel) and we, in or clubs and organizations and places like PaddleWise, also stress responsible safe operation of our vessels (jetskiers don't really have this, certainly not as universally as we do). Still it doesn't take much irresponsible behavior and lack of consideration for the rights of others to find ourselves also curtailed some in how we operate. We constantly need to watch ourselves to make certain we don't step over any lines that could get us collectively in trouble. I am really mindful of this. For example, when I am cartopping a kayak, I am extra courteous on the road, letting other cars merge into heavy traffic from shopping centers, etc. It is something I tend to do anyway but with that boat on my roof identifying my cult, I want to make certain that the general public gets a good image of that cult. Small things like that help give us a positive image. Think in these terms whenever you are out on the road, or on the water or landing or launching. Jet skiers clearly have not and they are beginning to pay a price for their oversight. ralph diaz-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. 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I think Ralph hit the nail right on the head on why some sports/activities can become unpopular. Personally, the only problem I have had with jetskis is the fact that they dump as many unburned hydrocarbons into the environment in just a few hours as an automobile does in 100,000 miles of driving. I've had more problems with traditional power and sail boats being jerks, myself. However, we as kayakers are not immune from scrutiny ourselves. I paddle with several clubs here in New England, and I have noticed a general lack of RESPECT and AWARENESS among the members of one or two groups of paddlers that paddle with several of these clubs. Things like landing on private property without so much as even asking permission, blocking marked channels, and blocking boat ramps when launching/landing are becoming commonplace. I will add that there are other groups I paddle with that go out of their way to make sure nobody does these things, but as we have all said in recent days, it's the bad ones that stand out. I think the best thing we all can do for ourselves as paddlers is to take the initiative to regulate our own, before someone else decides we need to be regulated by government. We still have a positive image, I think, and we should try to keep it that way. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Wayne Smith wsmith16_at_snet.net Check out my sea kayaking & homebrewing page: http://pages.cthome.net/wsmith16/home.html > > This is one of the many good ideas coming up in PaddleWise. But I want to > get to another thought. Isn't it amazing that a sport, jetskiing, that is > relatively new (I can't remember when the sport started taking off) and has > reached such huge numbers of advocates (the number of jetskis and jetskiers > greatly dwarfs the number of sea kayaks and sea kayakers) who have shelled > out mucho money and supported a large industry that has done extensive > advertising, created a whole bunch of magazines (several of them > individually have a circulation that is higher than all the paddling > publications combined), etc. is probably on the brink of being effectively > shut down or very seriously curtailed. That total ban it faces in national > parks, the many state-level strictures in the form of licenses, mandatory > training, etc. all are narrowing where a jetskier can go and how he or she > can operate. > > I am not feeling sorry for jetskiers, mind you. But there are lessons here: > > 1. If you put out a recreational machine that is a high polluter such as a > jet ski, eventually the world will come crushing down on you. The industry > has only itself to blame for this current predicament it faces. It has been > stalling for years in cleaning up the machines. Only now, faced with that > national park ban and other curtailments, is the industry now saying it will > act to reduce noise and environmental pollution. > > 2. If you foster an image of hi-jinx and reckless behavior (which the ads > for jetskis almost always do) in order to sell you product, you help create > a good number of reckless operators. This leads to annoying others and also > to a large number of deaths on the water. This then leads to the type of > bans that are hurting the industry. Again, the industry only has itself to > blame. > > I always thought that the jetski lobby was so strong that nothing would ever > come up to hinder where and how the machines operate. So I am surprised how > many states and municipalities as well as the feds are tightening the noose > around the necks of the industry and its customers. > > I think as kayakers we should take notice. While our boats are not > polluters in themselves, we can have an impact on the environment in other > ways or have an annoying effects on others. Issues like landing on private > property and not watching how we treat it or close encounters with marine > life which is covered by federal statutes in the US among other places, or > paddling without concern for the rules of the road causing problems for > commercial maritime users of the waters. (It's a theme I get into some of > the Dispatches I do for Canoe & Kayak magazine; one has a photo of a sign at > a NYC luxury yacht marina that says "No Jetskis, No Kayakers" i.e. lumping > us together with the dreaded jetskier!) By and large, our industry is more > aware of such things and fosters safe, responsible behavior (180 degrees > opposite of what the jet ski industry does, I feel) and we, in or clubs and > organizations and places like PaddleWise, also stress responsible safe > operation of our vessels (jetskiers don't really have this, certainly not as > universally as we do). Still it doesn't take much irresponsible behavior > and lack of consideration for the rights of others to find ourselves also > curtailed some in how we operate. > > We constantly need to watch ourselves to make certain we don't step over any > lines that could get us collectively in trouble. I am really mindful of > this. For example, when I am cartopping a kayak, I am extra courteous on > the road, letting other cars merge into heavy traffic from shopping centers, > etc. It is something I tend to do anyway but with that boat on my roof > identifying my cult, I want to make certain that the general public gets a > good image of that cult. Small things like that help give us a positive > image. Think in these terms whenever you are out on the road, or on the > water or landing or launching. Jet skiers clearly have not and they are > beginning to pay a price for their oversight. > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. 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At 06:58 PM 4/14/01 -0400, ralph diaz wrote: >Isn't it amazing that a sport, jetskiing, that is >relatively new . . . and has >reached such huge numbers of advocates . . . who have shelled >out mucho money and supported a large industry that has done extensive >advertising, created a whole bunch of magazines . . . > is probably on the brink of being effectively >shut down or very seriously curtailed. That total ban it faces in national >parks, the many state-level strictures in the form of licenses, mandatory >training, etc. all are narrowing where a jetskier can go and how he or she >can operate. Thought-provoking post, Ralph. A couple years ago, I was out doing an early Sunday morning paddle on one of the lakes. I came around a point very close to shore, and saw a small, low powered speedboat. A couple of people in it were working on teaching a young, maybe nine or ten years old girl how to water ski. Good way to do it, not a lot of power to intimidate the kid, and she was doing fine. I was close to shore, and ducked in behind the swim bouys to stay out of the way. On one of the docks was a woman about my age, watching intently. It was an interesting sight that brought back memories -- that speedboat would have been a big honker when I was a kid. I was ready for a breather, pulled up, and soon discovered that the woman was the girl's grandmother, and was a lifelong cottager. I've lived in the area most of my life, and we fell to talking. "Remember when we were that age and people thought that waterskiiers were the pains in the fanny?" I said. Well, of course, she did. "I guess those people grew up, and had kids, and their kids decided they had to have something even more irritating. Hence, the jetski." Well, she laughed and I laughed, and we remembered the old days for a few minutes and I was soon on my way, but my wisecrack has stuck with me. Over the years, I've seen a number of threats to peace and tranquility come by. Thirty years or so ago, when snowmobiles were first becoming popular, a lot of people thought that they were the scourge of the winter woods. In fact, there were a lot of reckless, thoughtless riders in those years. There are still some today -- but the response of local government and the snowmobile community brought a lot of that under control. Today, snowmobiles are liscensed and regulated, mostly stay on designated trails and in locations where they're supposed to be. Snowmobiles are a big economic factor in the north woods these days, and while there are yahoos out there, they are relatively rare. But snowmobiles spun off into all-terrain vehicles (ATVs). Like the snowmobile, the ATV gives a tremendous amount of mobility in the woods. This is good for the people that just don't have the physical stamina to backpack or cross-country ski, but enjoy being in the woods. However, there was an even greater explosion of yahoos ripping things up. It took a while for law enforcement, lawmakers, the industry, and other cooler heads to prevail, but now, at least in this state, ATVs are pretty well restricted where they can operate. Much of the next few paragraphs will probably reflect the fact that over the last fifteen years I've put a lot of time into hiking trail development. I've spent many more hours working on hiking trails in one way or another than I have in the seat of a kayak, so I can't help but have a skewed perspective. A big part of the problem with ATVs, and later mountain bikes, was and is the perception that if there's a trail in public land, many riders feel they should have access to it. That sounds good in theory, but the actual practice is that most hiking trails on public lands outside of parks are developed and maintained by volunteers. It may be fun for the ATV rider or mountain biker to go out and throw some dirt, but if you're the guy with the fire rake that's concerned with treadway degradation, or if you're the hiker that has to walk in a "linear sand dune", then you're going to think that it's an outrage. If you're hiking down a hill, carrying a pack, and some bozo on a mountain bike comes down the hill after you at thirty miles an hour and yells "Get the #### out of my way!", well, you're not going to have much use for mountain bikes. If you're concerned about trail being eroded, you're not going to have a lot of use for the guy that wants to go out and "shred some trail." We were past the peak of ATV problems on hiking trails when I got into working on hiking trails with the North Country Trail Association, on the North Country National Scenic Trail, but mountain bikes were spooling up. We spent a lot of time bitching and whining about mountain bikes. But, one day I spoke up in a meeting, and basically said that the thing to do would be to hang tough, and pretty soon it wouldn't be a problem any more. And, you know what? At least in this state, the mountain bike organizations started to realize that they were going to have to clean up their own acts, and were going to have to start to contribute to trail devlopment and maintenance, or get thrown off the trails. The process isn't complete yet, but let's just say that mountain bikes on hiking trails aren't quite the issue they were five years ago. Which is not to say that the yahoos aren't still out there, but are beginning to learn that their behaviour isn't as tolerated as it once was. The point that I'm reaching for, I guess, is that as each one of these activites come along, the yahoos come with it, until the authorities and the more responsible practioners and the industry crack down. Mountain bikes are the only human powered activity that's drawn the yahoos, and they're getting the heat for it. (I know those that look at rec.backcountry are going to think "Mike Vandeman", but, as Jackie says, "Let's not go there . . .") To drag this back to somewhere near being on topic, I think I can see the process taking place with jetskis. They have been a scourge in recent years, but the yahoos are starting to draw a reaction from the authorities and more responsible elements. The industry is going to have to take notice, or they're going to have their market legislated out of existence. Things change. The jetski market has forced some change. In fact, the design of jetskis has mutated rapidly. Ten years ago, most jetskis were powered surfboards with standing riders. That's how they got the name. In fact, I haven't seen many of those types of jetskis in recent years -- the things are changing, becoming larger, and less agile, turning more into small runabouts. In fact, I'm seeing "jetskis" that are nearly the size and power of a small runabout from back in the days when the proud grandmother and I were kids, with side by side, in the boat seating. Deja vu. Yesterday, one of the guys from the "jetski incident" and I were out paddling down a narrow channel when we saw a pontoon** coming the other way. Quite quietly. I turned to my partner and said, "Love those four-strokes!" "Why's that?" the guy on the pontoon asked from twenty yards away. "Quiet, no smell. Thanks," I replied. Sure enough, he had a big, four-stroke Evinrude on the back of that thing. My van runs noisier than that. A lot of the irritation we feel with jetskis comes from the noise and smell and pollution of the two-stroke engine. I would not be surprised to see the banning of two stroke marine engines in the foreseeable future. In fact, a ban on the production of two-stroke outboards is in the works, if I recall correctly. So, I think that in the next few years things will improve. It will come slowly. But, I am concerned that paddle sports may become restricted in much the same way. It's still pretty wierd to see a kayak on some of these cottage lakes, but that's changing. There were several people out doing yard work around the lake that we paddled yesterday, and we stopped and talked to several. It's really not much of a sample, but of a dozen people that we talked to on one lake, six had recently purchased recreational kayaks, or were thinking about it. In fact, the cottager where we landed to recover from the incident said that he was thinking about getting a kayak, and we promised to take him out when the water is warmer. How's a guy gonna waterski when there's a hundred kayaks out on a small lake? More user interface problems . . . most of us are interested in growth, if for no more reason than to have like minded people around, but there can be too much. Changing topics slightly, it struck me today that one of the problems that we had last Sunday was not that there were too many jetskis, but too few of them, and other lake users. Given some more powered lake users around, a number of things might have happened. First, the incident might not have occurred at all -- the punk waited until he knew there was no one to interfere. Other jetskis, other lake users, could have interfered. Or have been witnesses, with the capability of pursuing to get the kids number. Or, assisted in a rescue. The punk wouldn't have done it if he'd thought he wasn't going to get away with it. -------------- ** A post-script: Some distance above, I mentioned "a guy on a pontoon". The things are common as dirt around here, but other Paddlewisers in other areas may not know what I'm talking about. What we call a "pontoon" is a raft supported by two (or sometimes more) pontoons, typically about two feet across and twenty or so feet long. There's lots and lots of deck space for coolers, people, lawn chairs, barbeque grills, etc. They're very popular among cottagers on inland lakes. When I was a kid, you built your own, using 55-gallon drums, and powered them with a small outboard. These days, they can have some honker engines on them, and I've seen them towing water skiiers. The more things change, the more they stay the same. And the more they change. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. 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A year or so ago I saw one of the first generation jetskis again. I was amazed at how tiny the thing was. I submit that if the type had stayed as small we would not consider them the problem we do today. While they are bigger and less agile today, they are also much more powerful, capable and easy to use. But I agree that the "jetski problem" will fade away to some extent as regulations come into play. More importantly, they will go out of style. Around here windsurfing used be really big, now it is much less popular. It has nothing to do with the fact that some people thought them a scourge. They just aren't the in thing any more. The same will happen with jetskis, not to mention sea kayaks. People move on. I'm sure the Maine lobstermen are anxiously awaiting the waning of the sea kayak fad. Nick > >Things change. The jetski market has forced some change. In fact, the >design of jetskis has mutated rapidly. Ten years ago, most jetskis were >powered surfboards with standing riders. That's how they got the name. In >fact, I haven't seen many of those types of jetskis in recent years -- the >things are changing, becoming larger, and less agile, turning more into >small runabouts. In fact, I'm seeing "jetskis" that are nearly the size and >power of a small runabout from back in the days when the proud grandmother >and I were kids, with side by side, in the boat seating. Deja vu. -- Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Schade" <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com> > thought them a scourge. They just aren't the in thing any more. The > same will happen with jetskis, not to mention sea kayaks. People move > on. I'm sure the Maine lobstermen are anxiously awaiting the waning > of the sea kayak fad. Add to that list the maritime commercial interests in NY Harbor, the vacation home owners in the San Juans, the US Coast Guards in certain places that shall remain nameless where sea kayakers seem to have more than the normal share of mishaps that require assistance. The only sharers of the waters that will miss us are the jetskiers!!! ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 01-04-14 20:45:00 EDT, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com writes: << (It's a theme I get into some of the Dispatches I do for Canoe & Kayak magazine; one has a photo of a sign at a NYC luxury yacht marina that says "No Jetskis, No Kayakers" i.e. lumping us together with the dreaded jetskier!) >> When we paddle in areas such as off the Keys that have a lot of powerboats, some are very considerate and other's don't give a damn about the wake they leave. The other side of the coin is a comment my ex made about those _at_###$$ kayakers who are all over the place and the power boats can't get through. (Refer to Ralph's comment about sharing the water space.) I think it is important for groups to congregate as much as possible and attempt channel crossings en masse. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
As usual, Ralph Diaz' insightfulness was right on target. In particular, the bit about making some friendly overtures to jetskiers at the put-in. And the reminder of the cardiac patient who was whisked to help. THEY know that WE want them off the water, so.........they show their animosity. In addition to loud jetskis we (in Florida) are also subject to the INCREDIBLY LOUD NOISE emitted by airboats. These things are lightweight contraptions that have engines mounted up high. They skim over everything (and tear the hell out of the Everglades' River of Grass) and make such a racket that the drivers/passengers wear ear protectors like you see on the people working on runways. There we were, camping on the banks of the Peace (hah!) River over the Hallowe'en weekend last year and this fellow kept going back and forth past us (there was no other route), each time with a different "chick." The disturbance of the Peace was really bad. I do believe they should be banned from rivers. At least on a lake there is more room for avoidance...unless they wanna act nasty. I believe one of the members of our group made a rude "digital" gesture. After that the game was on! Perhaps we should have smiled and waved...... Oh, the fellow lost his bandana and he ain't never gonna find it. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Sandy, I truly sympathize with you and your encounters. Fortunately these vessels are uncommon and seem to gravitate to specific areas. I live in an area of extreme wealth (I live in the poor section!), located along the waters that lead out to the bay, ocean and NYC. The residents include celebraties and money moguls where the name of the game is to have the most sensational, *visible* "toy". Last year, someone added an airboat to their personal property collection and happened to put it on the water one evening when I was out for a soothing sunset paddle. The decibal seemed to be right up there with cigarette boats, although the *noise* is much harder to ignore. Faster in frequency, higher in pitch, imagine an *airborn* PWC except 10 or 15 times louder. I actually had to stop and put in the ear plugs I carry for extensive water work (rolling, sculling, etc.). Then I really missed hearing the birds and the sounds of the water and my interaction with it. Perhaps it was only a FL resident up here visiting. I can only hope. (My apology) Debbie Reeves Sandy Hook, NJ > ---------- > From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com[SMTP:Gypsykayak_at_aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:37 PM > To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Wes Boyd Incident > > As usual, Ralph Diaz' insightfulness was right on target. In particular, > the > bit about making some friendly overtures to jetskiers at the put-in. And > the > reminder of the cardiac patient who was whisked to help. > > THEY know that WE want them off the water, so.........they show their > animosity. > > In addition to loud jetskis we (in Florida) are also subject to the > INCREDIBLY LOUD NOISE emitted by airboats. These things are lightweight > contraptions that have engines mounted up high. They skim over everything > > (and tear the hell out of the Everglades' River of Grass) and make such a > racket that the drivers/passengers wear ear protectors like you see on the > > people working on runways. > > There we were, camping on the banks of the Peace (hah!) River over the > Hallowe'en weekend last year and this fellow kept going back and forth > past > us (there was no other route), each time with a different "chick." > > The disturbance of the Peace was really bad. I do believe they should be > banned from rivers. At least on a lake there is more room for > avoidance...unless they wanna act nasty. > > I believe one of the members of our group made a rude "digital" gesture. > After that the game was on! Perhaps we should have smiled and waved...... > > Oh, the fellow lost his bandana and he ain't never gonna find it. > > sandy kramer > miami > > ************************************************************************** > * > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************** > * > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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